British woman found guilty of making up rape claims

That's a great article from Janice Turner today. And a welcome relief from some awful victim blaming, rape apologist posts on this thread.

Or for that matter do you think we would not believe Paris Lees if she were ever in a situation where her multiple sex partners scenario went wrong

Side note: Paris Lees is male, with patterns of sexual behaviour and attitude that tend to accompany that in many men. Also Paris Lees was very open about prostituting themself in order to pay for gender re-assignment surgery. In fact seemed rather thrilled that men "travelled from all over the country" to have sex with Paris Lees.

That's not to say Paris Lees could not get themself into a situation that went beyond what had been agreed; being ambushed and raped by multiple strangers...Still don't think that Paris Lees a good example of equivalence to use at all......

Thanks for the share Igne
Yes, Janice nails it again.

I had a chill reading this - a reminder of my sex if ever I needed one.

#IBelieveHer

I’ve been on a Jury and fully understand the point about beyond reasonable doubt.

She planned to go back to have consensual sex with one - yes

That she suddenly consented - whilst surrounded on her own by all those other men - to have sex with each of the other men on an individual basis - no

Do we think this is a porn fantasy of the men -yes

That all those other men ensured that in an individual basis she consented in advance to have sex with each of them - no

Did she consent to be harmed - you can’t consent to this in English law - no

Do I think the witness hearing that before the night the gang all wanted to have sex with one woman is telling the truth and it was disregarded - yes

Do I believe men who film and publish a video of the attack and call her a whore are likely to respect women and the notion of consent - no

Do I think being interrogated unrecorded for 7 hours without a lawyer after being raped will lead to a retraction - not based on how a native English speaker would write - is part of a full and fair police investigation - no.

I and everyone - male and female -at work and in my personal circle think she was raped.

Wolfpack

I believe her

Janice nailing it, as always.

The whole thing is a travesty, and I’m knocked sick by the rape apologism and porn sick twisting of events going on.

Donated this morning because I believe her, all day every day and twice on Sundays.

Janice Turner in Times today
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/claim-rape-and-a-social-media-assault-begins-q3rwvchg0?shareToken=d5f0bc3e78551206282032b61a82f0f6

There is no option to comment sadly.

No motivation other than not liking people stating as absolute truths things which are matters of opinion.

well if it comes to that you have no idea how many men your friend has slept with at one time and it is just your opinion that she wouldn't be that bothered by 12. Just an opinion then not an absolute truth.

And if it is true or not it doesn't make it any less unlikely that most women would be unlikely to consent to 12 men at once. amazing that we are having to point this out to you.

I do hope the posters are never on a jury.

I've been on a jury, actually. Contrary to what you might think, I do understand the concept of "proof beyond reasonable doubt". That woman did not consent to sex with all twelve men, I am satisfied beyond reasonable doubt of that. Did she consent to sex with one or two of them? If so, which ones? That would make it hard to convict any of them. Likewise, the Belfast rugby case: one of those men raped the victim brutally enough to put a 1cm tear in her vagina, but which one?

ferrier

Oh dear! No motivation other than not liking people stating as absolute truths things which are matters of opinion. I do hope the posters are never on a jury

What tosh. The posts making absolute statements were quite clearly to be read in context.

I sincerely hope you, with or without your man herding friend, are never on a jury.

Do you seriously think the posters on here are incapable of distinguishing between this young woman and say Paris Lees who is very open about being up for casual sex with multiple partners? (Apology to Ms Lee for dragging her into this but she seemed an apt example)

Or for that matter do you think we would not believe Paris Lees if she were ever in a situation where her multiple sex partners scenario went wrong?

Oh dear! No motivation other than not liking people stating as absolute truths things which are matters of opinion. I do hope the posters are never on a jury.

I believe her.

On the other hand ferrier I don't believe you, and I seriously wonder about your motivation for posting that on this thread.

Yes it's possible for a woman to consent to sex with 12 men. I have a friend who does this kind of thing very happily.

A friend, hey?

Just out of interest, what do the other 11 men do when it's not their turn? Do they stand around watching or are they lined up outside?

Bumping this - it's too damn important.

Fuck those police, let's get this teen girl home.

Here's the Mail -proving to e a surprising ally to women recently, nobody is more shocked than me about this.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7846555/Language-expert-Confession-British-womans-Cyprus-rape-case-dictated-police.html

It's over £120,000. Signed and donated.

Have donated to the Crowdfunder, now off to Change.org to sign the petition.

One example being that no woman would consent to sex with 12 men.

To make it absolutely clear: it is my fervent belief that outside of a pre-planned (by her) and safeguarded event such as a sex club or planned orgy, no woman would consent to having sex with 12 men. Certainly no woman would go back to her fling's hotel room and be OK with ten or so of his mates turning up. When I said "end of", it was in this context that is unplanned by her and unsafeguarded. As we have discovered from this case, groups of men left unsafeguarded will injure a woman. Every woman knows this.

Surely being taken completely advantage of and not even being conscious to say yes, is rape.. I wonder.

Yes. If he put his dick you and you were unconscious, then you could not consent and he could not reasonably believe you to have consented. If you don't recall what happened, it's not possible to know whether he did put his dick in you. anyway because the uncertainty cannot be pleasant.

At a party one night I got Very, drunk, the kind that you know you weren't even conscious at the time. I woke up in another man who'd been at the parties house, with no shoes, or tights on. I have no recollection whatsoever, of getting with him. Something in the back of my mind tells me I was raped. Surely being taken completely advantage of and not even being conscious to say yes, is rape.. I wonder.

I often got drunk and went home with guys, but this was seriously drunk, as in not even a snippet of memory.

We ended up staying at the house the next night for another party, no wonder the guy Was acting so off with me, after sleeping with me. Maybe he felt guilty because he took advantage, or some could say probably raped me. I'll never know.

Pallisers, I didn't think anything on this thread would make me smile, but your post at 14:59 did. Great point.

The point I am making is that some posters are stating things as truths which are not truths
One example being that no woman would consent to sex with 12 men. This is not true. Some women do. It is unhelpful to this poor woman's cause to rely on such a statement
There is no point using words like 'most' or 'unlikely' or 'a lot of'

Nope still not seeing what your point is. There were I concede absolute statements being made but they were clearly in the context of the particular situation here - not the context you are proposing. I don't think labouring the point about the odd porn style fantasy added much to the discussion.

Which tbf is pretty much what happened. However unlike orgy friend who isnt concerned with how many people they have sex with at once, this girl was bothered.

Because no one actually turns around and sees 12 men and goes "Oh well!"

I like the fact as well that 12 wouldn't bother orgy friend

Not that she's into 12 men, or wants to have sex with 12 men. Just it wouldn't bother her

I just imagine her looking around thinking she had say three, 12 eyes blinking back and shrugging "Oh well looks like it's 12 tonight"

The point I am making is that some posters are stating things as truths which are not truths.
One example being that no woman would consent to sex with 12 men. This is not true. Some women do. It is unhelpful to this poor woman's cause to rely on such a statement.
There is no point using words like 'most' or 'unlikely' or 'a lot of'.
And btw, I didn't say regularly. Occasionally would be more accurate.

There were some other comments posted as 'truths' which were also questionable. The relevance is these comments/statements would not hold up in a court of law.

pallisers your post at 14.59 is excellent by the way
yep, what Pallisers said!!