Female staff shun MOD's pongy new mixed sex loos

So did women do the same (complain to the police) about transwomen?

Hahahaha.

Have you seen how women who are pro-single sex spaces are treated in the media and in their workplaces?

Wow!

So did women do the same (complain to the police) about transwomen?

I have never heard about this before, what a disgrace .

That makes it a bit clearer but how did transmen get excluded from the men’s one?

Because despite the women's pond being open to any male who said they identified as a woman, including pervy, hairy-chested men in trunks and penis with not even a hair-do of a "transition" (where women were told there was nothing they could do), when ManFriday transmen went to the men's pond the men in there kicked up a big fuss, called the police and had them all thrown out.

Thanks! That makes it a bit clearer but how did transmen get excluded from the men’s one?

Men’s pool - men
Women’s pool - women and transwomen
Mixed pool - women, men, transmen and transwomen

Why can’t some women use mixed sex one - is that out of choice? I understand that men are allowed a men only facility and that women aren’t. I don’t believe TWAW (unless they have fully transitioned in which case I still don’t think they are female but for the purpose of toilets/changing facilities/prisons I am happy for them to be in a woman’s space as I think they would but unsafe in a men’s one and not a threat to women in a woman’s space).

The scenario I was talking about was the one in which transgender people are not welcome in either men or women’s facilities.

It seems to me that women, men, gender neutral facilities seems to be the only way forward but because of costs it will be seen to be easier to make all facilities gender neutral. Which I hate! So we lose what we want for a teeny weeny part of the population. I think that teeny weeny part of the population does need somewhere but we live in a world where cost trumps women’s rights.

Having said all that it must be agony for those who suffer from gender dyspmorphia but this wave of ‘identifiying as the opposite gender’ is crazy. I have teenagers. They know one boy who identifies as female (but hasn’t come out to anyone apart from his friends about it) and one girl who identifies as a boy who is open about it. I’ve managed to get to my forties without knowing anyone who is transgender - and I work in a business where I meet different people all the time. So how much of it is a bandwagon? My teens also know a lot of openly gay teens. Are more people gay or more people not afraid to say they are gay? Is it the same with transgender people?

It’s a confusing time for everyone but I do agree, female only spaces must be protected.

Sorry, not sure what you mean!

Hampstead Heath Ponds is a good example of what Michelleoftheresistance means.

There are 3 ponds and used to be designated
Men
Women
Mixed

Now the ponds are
Men (and excludes transmen as ManFriday found out)
Women including transwomen (so mixed unless you believe TWAW)
Mixed

So in reality
men have their own pond, and can chose to use the mixed pond or ID as transwomen and use the womens’ pond (access all areas)

women do not have a pond that is exclusively for women to use, and for some women this is exclusionary because they cannot use mixed sex facilities (access to no areas)

Sorry, not sure what you mean!

‘As I said earlier: to do so is about offering people born male a wider personal choice of spaces at the cost of depriving all female people of privacy and dignity of any spaces apart from males, and excluding some some female people from having access to any spaces at all. To give male people more choice of which spaces they prefer. Weigh that up.’

If women and men say no to Trans people then where are they supposed to go safely?

Men are not saying no to male trans people in male facilities. Women are not saying no to female trans people in female facilities. The 'no' is to transgressing the norm, established for good reason, that male people don't enter female single sex spaces.

As I said earlier: to do so is about offering people born male a wider personal choice of spaces at the cost of depriving all female people of privacy and dignity of any spaces apart from males, and excluding some some female people from having access to any spaces at all. To give male people more choice of which spaces they prefer. Weigh that up.

If you can see why this is just or right please tell me. Really. I'm dying to know why this isn't a howling, appalling injustice.

If women and men say no to Trans people then where are they supposed to go safely?

Why is it women's problem to solve?

Who are responsible for over 90% of violent offences and 98% of sexual offences? Men.

Sex-segregated toilets are safer for women because men are kept out.

If anyone is unsafe in the men's toilets, why isn't it men's job to solve the problem?

LuluJakey1 's comment needs repeating time and again.
Women and men are not demanding mixed sex facilities. There's a certain type of person asking for this and they are precisely the people who should not be allowed anywhere near others when they are undressing / vulnerable.
Women are repeatedly on the back foot over this, yet we shouldn't be. We need to keep questioning the motivation of the powerful men (and it's mainly men) who are implementing this. Make them explain why they are so desperate to invade women's spaces.

Senseless: "Our issue is that we need clean, safe, single sex loos, for women. Whatever other provision exists for others - I don't care, except I generally hope it works for them and everyone can be happy. Still - not my problem."

Absolutely 100% this.

The elephant cantering around the room is that third spaces involves saying the word 'no'.

There's a quote I've been searching for for a long time, something about behind the coward who claims to be acting from nobility and niceness, creeps the axeman with his shining, bloodied axe. Who does his dirty work for him, because that cowardice still does harm, it just a way to avoid facing up to or taking responsibility for it. Also voiced by Harry Miller's Judge 'If the government intend to remove fundamental human rights they must face up to the realities of what they are doing'.

we need clean, safe, single sex loos, for women. Whatever other provision exists for others - I don't care, except I generally hope it works for them and everyone can be happy. Still - not my problem.

This. Very well put.

Removing needed single sex facilities from females excludes and fails female people. The reasons and needs for female people in having single sex spaces haven't gone away. Taking them away to try and meet the needs of another demographic is a ridiculous answer.

Third spaces: easy enough to do and provides a solution for those who prefer not to use facilities intended for their biological sex, plus those perfectly happy to use mixed sex spaces.

This really isn't at all about safety. This is about offering some male people choice and freedom while removing from some female people access to any space at all .

What is wrong with single sex loos? Why has there been a move towards mixed sex loos? We were discussing this when we were out with a mixed group of friends (10 of us) and none of us- men or women- wanted mixed sex loos. Why do loo providers think we do?

Can’t be bothered to go back and check who made the snarky comment but of course I don’t have the answers, that is why I was asking. Trans people aren’t only transwomen though.
So saying well it’s ok to take away Male facilities and make them gender neutral because it is only males who are trying to access women only spaces is just wrong as it works both ways. I am as angry as the next person, I want single sex spaces. I just can’t see the value in continuing to be furious without really thinking about the solutions too. If women and men say no to Trans people then where are they supposed to go safely?

That's my point, Creepster. It's not the urine.

Protein levels in urine: "For a 24-hour urine collection, the normal value is less than 80 mg per 24 hours."

About the fish smell, that comes from proteins that haven't been cleaned up soon enough. It's not men's urine that has proteins in it.

We have gender neutral loos where I work. Genuinely I only go if I absolutely have to. Sick of wiping up colleagues piss. Talk about wife work in the workplace.

Women make smells in the toilet too. This is a ridiculous argument.

Male piss stinks far more than female piss.

Hard to tell if this is a result of the fraudulent EA2010 text that was circulated to businesses, councils, and agencies, replacing sex with gender identity in the list of protected characteristics, or if it is simply misogynists abusing their power and the law in an effort to drive women out of the public sphere.

One reason why the executives pursue these policies may be inclusion on a list like this if you can garner enough woke points. Looks good on the CV when boarding the NGO/corporate gravy train.

outstanding.involvepeople.org/

The Home Office had similar problems in 2018

www.heart.co.uk/news/uk-world/home-office-gender-neutral-toilets-sign/

A £36,000 renovation to the lavatories at the Home Office hasn't gone down well with female workers who have been left feeling distressed since new gender neutral toilets have been introduced.

A notice has been placed outside the unisex toilets at the department’s Westminster headquarters asking men to ensure they only use the loos with the door closed, because it's been unsightly for female colleagues, who have been avoiding them as a result.

We had an issue on exercise where men were ejaculating onto the door handles of the portaloos. It was the most disturbing mass sexual harassment I have ever been subjected to in my Army career.

We have a simple approach where I work. Our staff is 10% female and 90% male.

The only people who know how to order anything or invoice anything are female.
Since the directors want to survive the month, they don’t challenge us on such a fundamental issue. We have a key code lock on the ladies loo which we set.

Carefully and sparingly used, collective action is very effective.

Totally agree SenselessUbiquity