M&S Changing rooms incident: "It'll upset the men."

Clymene
Just like you I actively supported them for years - had an M & S account, made a point of shopping there, even buying coffees in their outlets and now I just feel foolish. Who would have thought that a UK legacy brand like this would treat their female customers with such contempt?
But - we didn't miss them at Christmas (not even their yule logs!) and like you I've told many friends (who are equally horrified). No Christmas M & S flowers for distant relatives, no gift cards, a very nice turkey from the local butches and nothing in their sales. December was the big spending time at M & S - and all my ££ went elsewhere.

My local M&S and Next have a transwoman (each, not the same person!) staffing the women's changing rooms. (Still marked as women's/men's).

I didn't do my weekly shop there but I spent £200 or so a month. But no more.

And I used to defend them passionately - I so wanted them to survive and now I really don't care. They have shown utter disdain for their core market and their core market can vote with their feet.

I have told my mum and she had told her friends. They are horrified.

I recommend you also tell older women in your family. Women (who make up the vast majority of their market) need to know how little M&S values their custom

surely no-one does a full weekly/monthly shop in M&S?

I did. I was the archetypal Mrs M&S. No longer though.

My relatively new local M&S store is locked into a 15-year lease and it has struggled to establish its customer base since Day 1. Since I joined the boycott, it's lost a four figure sum at the very least because I took my Christmas shopping elsewhere as well as my weekly shop.

I'm not bothered if they survive either.

Complete radio silence after the first word salad email.
No evidence of how they consulted with their women customers, nothing about how we're all gagging to share changing rooms with men, nothing about how their USP (lingerie) experience is enhanced by having men listening to women discussing their mastectomy scars.
It's almost as if they only spoke to those organisations who campaign to remove women's sex based rights but daren't tell us?

It’s weird that for a company that I think is struggling is turning away the majority of their customers. Good. It will be too late when they realise their mistake after the damage is done.

I too got the copy and paste response from the CEO swiftly forwarded to the PR department and also responded with points I requested they clarified.

No response at all. Did anyone else have any luck even getting another identikit response, or just radio silence like me?

So the person who staffs the women's changing rooms is male

Yep, but the person has been there a very long time. When I first met them, probably well over 10 years ago, they were obviously male, but it doesn't strike me as much now. For one thing, they seen to have lost height (I did hear that hormone therapy can damage the spine).

So there was an official tweet on Oct 31 and an official press statement to the Independent on 1 Nov:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/marks-spencer-changing-rooms-gender-women-men-a9180391.html

This was swiftly followed-up by FPFW on Nov 3 who urged people to write to M&S with their concerns, and a collated series of reports from customers by WPUK on Nov 8.

womansplaceuk.org/2019/11/03/dear-marks-spencer-women-only-changing-rooms/

fairplayforwomen.com/changingroomstories/

So what happened? Were M&S Customer Relations staff all hibernating?

Watch out for that iceberg

My local M&S said they would have to allow a man dressed as a women into the lingerie changing room, but men dressed as men were stopped.

I haven't been back, and stopped all grocery shopping at my local M&S Food too. Saved myself a fortune, and no longer bothered whether they survive or not.

They'll never thrive as a supermarket with clothes either; surely no-one does a full weekly/monthly shop in M&S?

I've had a boycott on them this Christmas because of their official policy

Us too - went and did our 'anything you want for the Christmas week' shop elsewhere - I reckon we saved more than a hundred quid doing it too!

It's absolutely not fair on the employees to put them in this position. Policy should be clear.

Wish I could share my experience, but in my town the M&Ss closed down.
First the menswear shop closed down years ago (they were separate stores), then the womenswear and food closed down this year.
But, to be fair to the staff in the OP, they did say "it'll upset the men", but also did say they wouldn't allow, and seemed horrified about letting men into women's rooms too.

I was actively encouraged to use the men’s with my 13 year old just before Christmas. We had collected something for her from the click and collect and it’s in the men’s department and the woman told us that the nearest changing room was just there and that we could use any one now and pointed it out.

Wait what the transwoman who has worked there for years ?

So the person who staffs the women's changing rooms is male and behaves as if he thinks he is female?

Our M&S now has 3 changing rooms labelled changing Room (in the ladieswear floor), Men's, and Lingerie.

I was in there returning stuff. Now its all gone back on my card, I'm cancelling my account.

I was in our local M&S today. I get the impression that the fitting room is now gender neutral - think it used to say Women's and now it doesn't, and I've seen a young bloke in there with his girlfriend. Also, they used to be stricter with monitoring what you took in , and they seem to have stopped bothering. There used to be a row of blokes sitting outside waiting - they weren't there today. Have to say I only saw women, and the transwoman assistant who's worked there for years.

I feel bad for the employees, because they really aren't the people in charge of these policies, but I also feel that it is important to bring this to the attention of regular, every-day people. If the employees are following a different system than corporate, well, then the employees should know what they are expected to do.

You should have pretended you were trans therefore a man and get them slated for 'transphobia'. Topshop Travis in reverse. But that would be unwomanly woudln't it.

This lack of transparency must not stand in a democracy. There can't be unwritten rules and laws unless your "inclusiveness" is really just "in crowd clusiveness"

You could well be right about that, @MarieIVanArkleStinks!

However, this is just the kind of talking-both-sides-of-their face flannelling that JC (O, the irony) tried, about the Equality Act, IIRC, before Dawn Butler broke ranks and undermined it.

'In Next there is often a male attendant in the female changing room which I didn't feel comfortable with.'

But the whole point is you can poke your head out and ask for a different sized top or whatever without having to put all your clothes back on.

I don't think many women would feel happy asking a man this while half dressed, even with the curtain pulled around their head in the classic style

This will lose them sales won't it?

OP - you came across some of the many decent people who work at M & S. People who put customers first and are not seduced by toxic activist groups offering rainbow awards and expensive dinners to those who remove the safety of women and children in favour of men without boundaries. Like RuffleCrow we had an M & S free Christmas and have found that not only was their food not missed but cancelling the M & S account has already had a positive impact on finances.

It is worth noting that they haven't been able to find any words to explain how forcing women to have their lingerie fittings in cubicles next to men enhances women's privacy, safety or dignity - hence their policy of just ignoring all questions from their customers (or ex customers).

FFS at upset the men

I wish someone would get this stuff on camera and out there, it’s bonkers