Scottish census body backs self-ID guidance for sex question

Legally I think you have to fill it in , and honestly. I think it's anon as well though...

Not my area.

Will they still put 'sex' as the name of the box but you put what you feel? They are relying on people just ticking the box. But from a statistical POV it makes no sense to get people to answer differently depending on their knowledge of the question. And rely on them not really understanding it?... What happened to rigour and science and all that?

They’d be better ticking both boxes rather than just one

What is the law around answering census questions? What happens if we don't answer the questions in the intended way? Can our 'submission' be traced back to us?

Well in my house, as a cunty person, I do most 'wifework'. Which will include filling in the census.

So me and the DDs will be male. Why the fuck not? None of us subscribe to stereotype.

If they want to make the sex question inclusive they are still fucked as plenty of people don't 'id' as one or the other.

They are relying on people who haven't heard of this stuff thinking it is asking bio sex. It isn't.

The fact they're giving 2 options doesn't cater to the non binary people either...

It's a mish mash of rubbish. If they believed it the definitions would be different.

The is absolutely essential

Oh yes girl I misread your answers 🤣🤓

Hahahaha, well at least we agree and maybe not understanding the question /answer / census is a feature not a bug.

And yes Red, pointless. The census, not the wine 🍷😊

Excuse me as I've had
But surely this makes the census pointless

Oh yes girl I misread your answers 🤣🤓

If you were a rans man then the honest answer to the sex question would be female

But the guidance tells you to answer how you feel so the trans man person feels like a man so their answer would be male

There by making the census a pack of made up,what you think stuff statistic

No girl.

Maybe I’m being dim, but I don’t get this:

Yes, a sex question as there has been since 1801, although with guidance asking people to respond based on their gender identity. This is a compulsory question.

And another (new, separate, voluntary) question on gender identity.

So, say I was a transman, then my my answers would be
Male - for the compulsory question
Man - for the voluntary question

So, in TRA speak, a ‘cis’ man?

Surely statisticians serve no function in a society that replaces facts with feelings - why are they so keen to do themselves out of a job?

although with guidance asking people to respond based on their gender identity

They seem to be enforcing acceptance of an ideology (everyone has a gender identity, sex is irrelevant) without being prepared to explain why.

So the guidance is:

"If you are one or more of non-binary, transgender, have variations of sex characteristics, sometimes also known as intersex, the answer you give can be different from what is on your birth certificate".

This makes no sense unless they can define non-binary and transgender.

Who are the binary people?

It's also seems to suggest that an 'intersex' condition always implies doubt about sex.

Excellent then we will be able to compare mixed sex group A with mixed sex group B

The lobbying power combined with SNP block vote is terrifying

It's been discussed in the Scots parliament where all the issues were laid clear, but the heavy lobbying behind the scenes goes on and it's clear they're going to just do it anyway.

Whatever. Inform the general public, let them know that a huge amount of tax payer money is being spent on an enormous and expensive outlay of time and effort to create - statistics that will be worthless and purposeless and will create all kinds of problems. Because really, under those circumstances why bother with the census? Once you've told the populace they can make it up if they want to what is the point?

Rather like female single sex facilities: the primary purpose of having the item in question and the needs of the massive majority of users really should be what is considered. If the 'inclusion' aspect just destroys its purpose and usefulness to anyone, then it wasn't inclusion at all.

Dear Non-Binary People,

You have a sex. It’s either male or female. You’re not intersex. You know what your sex is. Don’t pretend you don’t. Your gender is irrelevant. It’s a box to tick. On one night. Once in a blue moon. It’s important, more important than the momentary upset you may feel for all of a minute by ticking a box that is an accurate scientific description of you. Please, just answer the fucking question, FFS.

Yours sincerely etc, etc.

So they are not collecting data correctly

🤷‍♀️ Jeez.

Yes, a sex question as there has been since 1801, although with guidance asking people to respond based on their gender identity. This is a compulsory question.

And another (new, separate, voluntary) question on gender identity.

Sorry just to clarify is the proposal that it asks sex and, separately, gender identity?

Just to clarify: in England, Wales and Scotland there will be a new, additional, voluntary question on gender identity. So every UK census form will have the usual sex question but with guidance that instructs respondents to answer based on their self-declared gender identity AND a separate question on gender identity in each jurisdiction bar Northern Ireland.

The link in our first reply shows you what the guidance looks like for each census authority.

What we, and the 80 academics, have pointed out is that the loss of quality data on sex is likely to be more acute amongst sub populations. At country-level, the numbers may not skew the data a huge amount (although equally the UK Govt GRA consultation cited estimates of the trans population that could be as high as 0.5m) but they may well be more stark amongst, say, young women, and maybe higher still if you look closely at particular geographic areas.

Given what we know about the surge in young girls identifying as boys, who knows how many young girls aged 12-18 years old might not appear in the 'female' category because the 'male' box has been ticked.

Example: the census provides baseline data against which rates of disease and social phenomena are measured. So if a small but nonetheless significant number of young women disappear from that dataset, what will that do when you try to calculate, say, the rate of cervical cancer? And from census data flows resource allocation/public spending decisions.

'This is changing because the vocal NB people ca't cope with answering with the truth - that they have a sex? (I understand that is very upsetting to them, but, I genuinely can't see why dysphoria triggered by having a sex is not a mental health condition)'

It won't help them as the proposal is the question is still 'binary'.

I'd have thought it's important to know sex, and how many people have a trans id. Two questions.

No idea why that's an issue.

So they won't have info to plan maternity services provision, estimate school places etc

If they don't know how many women of childbearing age there are

There's probably other stuff.

I'm a man for this census then. I certainly don't identify with the stereotypes associated with femininity.

I'm warming up to the idea of a dirty protest.

This is changing because the vocal NB people ca't cope with answering with the truth - that they have a sex? (I understand that is very upsetting to them, but, I genuinely can't see why dysphoria triggered by having a sex is not a mental health condition)

Well, I have a sex. I don't consider myself to have a gender. Am not answering any question which suggests I do.

If they want data, they can have data. Meaningless, stupid, messed up and worthless data - and oodles of it.

Maybe then they'll be brave enough to stick with facts.