Guardian journalist: Don't debate drag

Absolutely, Michelle! Toe the line, be a good right-thinker, or no matter what you will be censured, even legally compelled.

I think it's past the stage where it's possible to right the ship and head away from authoritarianism. It seems to me we are lurching ever forward into a twisted dystopia.

So how come only POC people get to decide what’s racist? And only gay people get to decide what is homophobic? And only trans people get to decide what is transphobic?

Explore this and you very quickly find that it's only the right kind of POC and gay and trans people who get to decide, ie only the ones properly on message. Which means this is nothing more than a shield of bullshit for a very unpleasant kind of politics that aims to coerce and to silence to enforce RightThink according to the gospel of Orwell, as opposed to coping with a range of views from within a community and accepting that people think, believe and value different things, and disagree. And understanding that grown ups should be able to handle this without their heads exploding.

Here is a very recent piece, from The Guardian, on how much Chris Godfrey loves drag

Of course he does.

Here is a very recent piece, from The Guardian, on how much Chris Godfrey loves drag: www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/sep/29/rupaul-drag-race-uk-bbc-alan-carr-graham-norton-interview

I’m not into the who woke IDPOL thing personally, but presumably this Guardian chap is?

So how come only POC people get to decide what’s racist?
And only gay people get to decide what is homophobic?
And only trans people get to decide what is transphobic?

But men get the final say on what is it isn’t misogyny?

As my nana would’ve said, ‘Cock off, mate’.

"Suspiciously missing from the public conversation were the voices of any actual women — just men talking to other men about how totally not sexist they are

"These criticisms missed two main points: drag queens do display disdain for the women they mock (more on this later), and drag queens are men playing women — an inherently privileged position"

"In all other areas, it’s generally accepted by progressives that members of a dominant/oppressor class should not dress up as and mock the members of a more marginalized class — especially when that costume involves harmful stereotypes"

medium.com/4th-wave-feminism/is-drag-misogynistic-553a0fed47b5 : 'Is Drag Misogynistic? It’s time to stop letting sexist gay men off the hook'........

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_queen

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_queen

I know wikipedia is heavily edited , but here is what the drag 'wikipedia page has to say:

Development of the drag queen in the United States started with the development of the blackface minstrel show.[28] Originally the performers would only mock African American men, but as time went on they found it amusing to mock African American femininity as well. They performed in comedic skits, dances, and "wench" songs.[29] These minstrel shows and their "wench players" were used by white men to both mock and oppress women and African Americans

As an aside, it’s very heartening that a lot of feminists are now critiquing drag (very effectively) without the fall back comparison to Blackface. Genuinely, it shows strength of argument.

I wish TRAs would likewise stop saying TWAW JL BWAW, which is the other side of the coin.

(For those who missed it there was a long thread on this very point, I’m on phone and can’t link but if you google “Blackface, womanface, offensive” it should come up.)

Maybe if drag queens weren't violently shoving women and being praised for doing so there wouldn't be so many people wanting to debate this. Food for thought, eh?

This person hasn't put their pronouns, how can I know how to refer to him/her/them/xer?

So much more time and effort these days is spent debating whether a topic is up for debate, rather than actually debating the topic.

It’s all so meta, and depressing.

Lol at no debate. There is a debate mate. Just because you say there isn't doesn't mean there actually isn't. Does he think women are so thick they are just going to roll over and go "okay, a man has spoken" and forget all our opinions?

What he actually means is "I know women have differing opinions but I don't give a shit about them".

Black

@drspouse I'm really confused? Are you suggesting that there is no male violence against women? Are you suggesting that men who dress as women do not commit violence against women? Are you saying that, for example, those who performed in lack and white minstrel shows committed violence against black people and that men who dress as women don't commit violence against women?

@Oakmaiden here is a good thread and tweeter to follow. Look in her timeline and you'll see plenty of discussion. I found it very enlightening. twitter.com/kprotein19/status/1194668900715319303?s=21

I hate to link to a right wing religious source (with whose general viewpoint I do not agree at all!) but Lifesitenews is one of the only places on the internet you can still view the photos originally published by the Multnomah County Library to its own Flickr stream of a male person dressed as "Carla Rossi" encouraging young children at Drag Queen Story Hour to climb on/drape themselves over Rossi's prone body.

I attach one example, but there are more:
www.lifesitenews.com/images/local/files/PDFs/Drag_queen_child_abuse.pdf

Does the Guardian really wish to take the editorial position that the increasing promotion of Carla Rossi's act and similar is up for "no debate"?

That's really quite worrying. As are all the comments calling her "the Sandra", "the Karen" and laughing about it. Okay drunk spectators shouldn't climb up onto the stage for any performance, but FFS sending someone flying head-first like that? Are you allowed to give women concussions as long as they're "a Sandra" now?

That clip is shocking. He's a big guy and she goes flying! What kind of idiot defends that?

WTF she went flying

Are you allowed to do that?

I've been pushed about by plenty men in my time, I'm little too. Is it different if the man is wearing a frock?

I'm genuinely quite taken aback by that.

Would a big man dancing have got that treatment. Take a wild guess.

This is quite upsetting. Man (in drag) assaults woman but hey she had it coming
mobile.twitter.com/CherylHoleQueen/status/1206644842018816000

Cheryl Hole is just a grim, grim name