Liverpool Women's hospital no longer has female toilets

Make sure every woman gets a complimentary funnel and it's fine

I think I agree with both Angry and Perfect. I agree that 3rd spaces are fine, for non-binary people and also for cross-sex carers (dads and daughters for instance).
It’s the accommodation of one group without the respect to the other that annoys.
For instance, that sign. The sign with a direction to the female toilet elsewhere is what makes the “all genders” toilet the third space rather than “THIS IS OURS NOW” and lump it.

The problem is that the whole point of the push is for validation and for getting rid of boundaries women need. Even if other alternatives are there, they will not be used by those who want the above

I go to a hospital every two weeks. Have had to visit hospitals all the time for 18 months now. Never had to queue at all. Hospitals tend to be pretty good on ample loo provision.

I'm worried about the Forstater case, and Fair Cop, and Safe Schools Alliance, and the Tavistock. I'm worried about removing women's loos, and especially changing areas, and making provision unisex across the board. I'm not worried about the creation of a proportionate-to-population number of loos for trans and NB people, though it would of course be preferable if the men's loos were the ones sacrificed, as they don't have the same clear need for single sex provision. But this fight is not winnable if we refuse to allow alternative provision to happen, either. If we want natal provision retained, we have to be able to point to an alternative. I think this is what that alternative looks like.

so OK, but where is the sign to the alternative toilet that is women only? where women won't be intimidated by someone clearly natally male in their spaces. Without that it seems disrespectful/tine wasting. In this case it isn’t much about the safety of the men or women, because it’s loos in a busy hospital, it’s about respect at a stressful time (it’s a hospital) and about women having to queue for longer than men.

And yes, obviously the men's should have been the one converted. But they only had to change a sign on ours, as opposed to completely refiguring - and for once, this will be a hospital with huge numbers of women's loos and very few men's, given it's a women's hospital.

If it's genuinely just one loo, with just 3 cubicles, in a huge hospital with hundreds of single sex loos, then actually I think this is a good thing. It means trans people and anyone who defines as nonbinary has an option where they won't be challenged, and can feel safer than they would in the men's, and conversely where women won't be intimidated by someone clearly natally male in their spaces. It's what needs to happen if we're to retain single sex provision. Third spaces.

And the NHS claims it has no money....... what a complete waste

Is that adjacent toilets, one toilet constructed for people with an urethra positioned on a flexible, forward facing tissue, that toilet still reserved for their use, and one toilet, constructed for those humans with a downward pointing urethra, embedded in their vaginal wall, but that toilet now shared with everyone?

I know this hasn't been posted on for a few weeks but I was at the hospital recently and took photos for anyone interested.

Yep

Interesting Fraggling. Not a sign that was ever needed in the ladies, funnily enough.

Yes indeed.

Have they thought to put signs like this up (I saw the other week)

There are gender neutral toilets at a refurbished leisure centre I use.

All sparkly & new & compliant with building regs etc.

Last week I opened a cubicle door on a bloke having a piss without locking the door.

It's what some men do.

Some sense...thankfully

But why not just call them 'unisex' - if that is what they are? Most people will not have a clue what a 'gender neutral' toilet is.

Please note there are still a number of separate female and male toilets in the main reception area and around the hospital site on all floors to give people a choice. The nearest separate female toilet is 30 metres away from the gender neutral toilet. Clinical areas operate separate male and female toilets and are not affected by any of these changes

Some sense...thankfully!

decision to convert a female toilet rather than a male toilet was simply because we did not feel it appropriate to have male urinals in the same space as single cubicles.

Screen the urinals or remove them. Problem solved.

The gender neutral toilet offers three separate cubicles for privacy.

Cubicles are not actually private. They provides visual screening of toilet users from honest, good-faith people. They do not grant privacy from malicious peeping toms.

So the men in that part of hosp do get double the provision and if women don't want to share with men they literally need to take a hike. In a women's hosp. Where many will have mobility issues (I was v slow moving at 42 weeks!).

I am really pissed of about this.
Do they really genuinely believe this is reasonable?

Will they see what actually happens, whether women and girls use them as much as they used to?

I can imagine some mums would feel need to get up and go with eg an 8yo girl if there are men in there, or take the hike with them irrespective of mobility, rather than send them in on own.

(Cue people saying oh boys go in the gents so why not have little girls going in old school toilets blocks on their own with boys and men).

'the decision to convert a female toilet rather than a male toilet was simply because we did not feel it appropriate to have male urinals in the same space as single cubicles'

Not appropriate for women to go in while men are using urinals. Appropriate for men to use the ladies.

'The gender neutral toilet offers three separate cubicles for privacy'

Old school toilets block not single enclosed toilets with basins etc.

'
The nearest separate female toilet is 30 metres away from the gender neutral toilet.'

Not that near if you're on crutches/heavily pregnant etc.

Bastards.

Update from hospital on their website

Gender neutral toilets at Liverpool Women’s
We are aware of some inaccurate information being circulated on social media regarding the Trust’s patient and visitor toilets.

As an inclusive organisation that respects equality and diversity, in early December 2019, the Trust converted ONE female patient/visitor toilet facility in the main reception area into a gender neutral toilet.

Gender neutral toilets benefit many patients and visitors who come through our doors who may need to be accompanied by a friend or family member of the opposite sex including; people with disabilities, the elderly, and children.

To clarify, these recent changes relate to ONE female toilet facility in the main reception area that was converted to a gender neutral toilet and the decision to convert a female toilet rather than a male toilet was simply because we did not feel it appropriate to have male urinals in the same space as single cubicles. The gender neutral toilet offers three separate cubicles for privacy.

Please note there are still a number of separate female and male toilets in the main reception area and around the hospital site on all floors to give people a choice. The nearest separate female toilet is 30 metres away from the gender neutral toilet. Clinical areas operate separate male and female toilets and are not affected by any of these changes.

23 December 2019

Sara my understanding is it's old school toilets

Otherwise changing the signs on the ladies but not the men's makes even less sense.

The reason old school blocks of women's are being changed to unisex while old school men's are not is presumably because of urinals. So people are thinking oh we need some men and women can use cos of trans/non binary, ladies only has cubicles change that.

This has happend at a lot of places.

They aren't thinking at all about
This means men have twice as much provision as women when it should be the other way around
This means men still have privacy from opposite sex while women don't
Dignity and safety of women

But that's par for the course really.

I asked a transman on reddit which toilets they preferred to use. at first they were most put out that i even asked then said that they either used a unisex if they could find it or waited til they got home. they didn't feel safe using a male toilet oh the irony.

the toilets are all single occupancy and open directly onto the corridors

If this is the case, what the problem? Most cares etc have just one toilet available for costumers, which can be used for either sex.

We're not talking cubicles leading off from a shared washbasin area here (Which would be an entirely different matter), if the above is the case

If it doesn't matter they should have made the men's toilets mixed sex.