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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Not totally related to feminism but a fascinating example of academic wokery

63 replies

Doyoumind · 22/12/2019 09:02

I came across this on Twitter and it really makes you wonder where the woke changes to language are going to take us next.

twitter.com/BMatB/status/1207554144174854144?s=09

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NeurotrashWarrior · 04/01/2020 08:28

I say "my colleagues." My TA etc.

NeurotrashWarrior · 04/01/2020 08:27

In academia though there's a cognitive connection or relationship hence why "my" tutor / student works.

People reflect on their past students with pride and vice versa (mostly) as it's all part of the intellectual research team effort.

NeurotrashWarrior · 04/01/2020 08:25

"Fix it"

I find that quite chilling. While trying to explain why no one belongs to anyone he's making a despot like demand.

Goosefoot · 03/01/2020 23:19

It's like "know better, do better" something about it just drives you up the wall.

wilco77 · 03/01/2020 21:03

The "nagging thought" that "we" need to be better in our language from the Tweet, is perhaps unintentionally, an example of bias and power dynamics. Dr Britton used his privileged position to frame the argument from his perspective and speak on behalf of others. This is a reason why it got many people across the world so annoyed.

Goosefoot · 01/01/2020 16:15

BluebonicPlague

Yes, you are right of course and that is very fair-minded of you. It seems that many people have picked up this way of thinking and behaving because they see it is what is going on around them.

PreseaCombatir · 01/01/2020 13:43

I don’t understand the problem with saying ‘my staff’
Surely ‘the staff’ sounds worse?

BluebonicPlague · 01/01/2020 01:36

Goosefoot
If he was just exploring the idea he'd be looking at his own behaviour and attitudes, and concrete things like how he actually treats people, pays them, etc.

Yes, absolutely he would, in the normal world we've probably left far behind. Wokery - and that's the point of its obsession with language control - tells him that this is the way to deal with it.

This business of telling everyone else they need to change how they speak generally comes from a quite different impulse.

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I submit that the professor is doing what he thinks is right because he's learned that this is the way people are supposed to look at problems these days. It's wrong; it's bonkers because it's tail wagging dog.

I'm not defending his analysis, I'm just not willing to say his language-policing is coming from bad motives or is deliberately obfuscatory. He's a follower of fashion. He doesn't work in the Humanities so he's an amateur at this, just trying to do the right thing by copying. He is pointing to something that's wrong, without recognising that changing the label doesn't change much. He's probably quite proud of himself for discovering a new application of a rule.

One of the things about adherents of wokery is their almost religious belief in the power of words and speech acts. Just say something, and you can make it so! Literally. Wink

JanesKettle · 01/01/2020 00:01

The thing that bugs me about this is that changing the language doesn't change problems with power relations.It's dealing with symptom not cause.

Calling my boss 'the person who employs me' does not functionally change anything about the power relationship between my boss and I.

In academia, there is blatant sexism that is more important that this angels on pin stuff. Calling your student 'the student in my group' doesn't stop you harassing them.

Catsrus · 31/12/2019 23:58

This business of telling everyone else they need to change how they speak generally comes from a quite different impulse.*

Indeed it does Hmm

Goosefoot · 31/12/2019 23:49

If he was just exploring the idea he'd be looking at his own behaviour and attitudes, and concrete things like how he actually treats people, pays them, etc.

This business of telling everyone else they need to change how they speak generally comes from a quite different impulse.

BluebonicPlague · 31/12/2019 21:57

Aargh, posted too soon!

No one who knows me would suspect me of wokery. I care about language though - and I think what is happening here is that a decent person is tying himself in knots because he feels obliged to use the rhetoric of wokery to explore an age-old potentially exploitative relationship of genuine concern. And oddly enough, the language of wokery and its current vogue (and no doubt his desire to be DWTK) is helping him.

BluebonicPlague · 31/12/2019 21:49

Well, I'd be interested in the sex ratio of the PhD students of those supervisors who took such delight in dissing him.

He's making a fair point in using language to explore attitudes. Nice that he quotes that Jim Al-Khalili interview with Jocelyn Bell Burnell (who is a hero of mine). Note that his discipline is STEM. Yes, he's making too much of it, and in focusing on language he's maybe focusing on the wrong thing. It's the patronising attitude that is concerning, not the language that might sometimes betray it. Or sometimes mean nothing more than saying 'my seminar group', which you might say whether you were a student or a professor.

The fact that he worries about it at all probably means that he personally doesn't need to worry about his language so much. The supervisors on his twitter feed - well, their complacency is another story.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 30/12/2019 23:27

audibly correct myself. He must be fun at parties 🥳
could NOT roll my eyes more

BackOnceAgainWithATinselHalo · 30/12/2019 23:18

It’s all just a bit ‘I don’t stand up for pregnant women because of equality’. Knobbery of the highest standard.

BackOnceAgainWithATinselHalo · 30/12/2019 23:17

fwrlurker indeed! I have been thinking and I find him quite ‘othering’ why can’t he care about HIS students like the other supervisors? Why so distant?

I call my team, MY team. I have their back and they work for me. I don’t think they’re my puppets!

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 30/12/2019 21:21

He's being a pretentious arse. All the use of 'my' is doing in that context is identifying a relationship in shorthand. Nobody thinks the supervisor owns the student.

There is a feminist aspect to it. For example being referred to as 'my wife', rather than by your name, reduces you to a possession - unless the relationship is relevant.
What about 'my husband'? 'My son'? 'My favourite walk' doesn't mean you own the walk...

FWRLurker · 30/12/2019 20:55

Back

Actually I’m quite sure that HIS trainees are working their asses off producing data and writing papers that he then stamps his name onto the end of. Biomed research is pretty heirarchical so he can get away with pontification on twitter and meeting with his students for an hour a week while they do the grunt labor needed to get the results.

Goosefoot · 30/12/2019 18:07

The issue isn’t the language; the issue is the power relationship. Change the power relationship and whatever’s he’s seeing implied by the language about the power relationship will no longer be there for him to see implied.Postmodernists’ theory of change is exactly ass-backwards. In fact, in their enactment of top-down authoritarian insistence on language change, with ex-communicative punishments of those who fail to obey, they only further embed existing power relationships.

Yes, this. I'm late to this discussion but I feel this is so important. It's a real frustration I have at times with Marxist-influenced ideas, and feminism. This assumption that the language is creating the problem and changing it will be a step to solving it. When it worn't, in most cases changing it will create the same negative connotation in the new language, and it will likely reflect other power dynamics anyway. (But won't cause them...)

BackOnceAgainWithATinselHalo · 29/12/2019 11:34

I take it his research isn’t yielding much data currently... Too much time on his hands.

wilco77 · 29/12/2019 11:12

This person's twitter thread is all over Facebook so I read it through and wow his sense of superiority is so clear. Yet another public school and Oxbridge-educated "Internet Mansplainer with Important Opinions" pontificating from their privileged position on how they think the world should be.

I work in a uni and guys (it's always men) like him are exactly the ones who make it harder for everyone else trying to make academia a batter and more welcoming place.

AutumnRose1 · 22/12/2019 17:47

Many people are paid to talk shite

I think that’s been the case for a long time, but suddenly they are being taken seriously.

MedusasButterDish · 22/12/2019 17:39

My first thought on starting to read his tweets was that he was cold-hearted. Really quite appropriate that he's getting a bit of a roasting! 🔥🔥

"My PhD student" --> "a PhD student in the/ my group", or "a PhD student who I supervise/ advise."

Man, that's cold. Even with people pushing back and saying exactly that, he still keeps coming back to argue his gotcha, because People Are Wrong On The Internet. (Not his own communication skills which are at fault, exceot insofar as he's clearly communicating what a massive have-to-be-right wanker he is). Crown Grin

@BickerinBrattle. Yes, I really think you're right about the way they want reality to serve language, nit the other way around.

JeansNTees · 22/12/2019 17:11

@ItsLikeHeardingCats One just realised why one's Queen Elizabeth speaks in such a way. One wouldn't want to be presumptuous.

BickerinBrattle · 22/12/2019 15:38

The issue isn’t the language; the issue is the power relationship. Change the power relationship and whatever’s he’s seeing implied by the language about the power relationship will no longer be there for him to see implied.

Postmodernists’ theory of change is exactly ass-backwards.

In fact, in their enactment of top-down authoritarian insistence on language change, with ex-communicative punishments of those who fail to obey, they only further embed existing power relationships.