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Times article about Debbie Hayton 'Trans women are men' T-shirt

33 replies

NotAssigned · 22/12/2019 04:44

Article here

Including this quote: "Professor Robin Lovell-Badge, head of the laboratory of stem cell biology and developmental genetics at the Francis Crick Institute, who discovered the gene that determines sex in mammals, said: “In the UK, I think most [people] would use ‘sex’ to refer to anatomical appearance and ‘gender’ to ways of behaviour.”
To a scientist, he said, anatomy could appear male, female or somewhere in between, but a man who transitioned could be said to change sex."

OP posts:
CrissmussMockers · 22/12/2019 08:07

Barnacle Geese were said to be fish by the RC Church, so people could eat them on Fridays.

Nappyvalley15 · 22/12/2019 08:04

Exactly. That's why I wondered if the quote was poorly edited and some of it was missing. It is very careful wording - almost as if discussing a thought experiment. But it feels as if the end of the quote is missing that would make it clearer that people don't actually in real life change sex.

fllinn · 22/12/2019 07:50

If a man was in an accident that resulted in his external genitalia having to be removed, we wouldn't call him a woman or any less of a man. I thought that stuff was dictated by XX or XY and that the other stuff is gender. I don't usually venture into these topics as I know I'm not well informed enough but I do feel like the world has gone slightly mad.

Igneococcus · 22/12/2019 06:57

To a scientist, he said, anatomy could appear male, female or somewhere in between, but a man who transitioned could be said to change sex

I'm a scientist and I very much doubt I would ever say that.

Nappyvalley15 · 22/12/2019 06:52

Confused by Lovell-badge. Does he mean if the appearance of a man's anatomy changes the he could appear to have changed sex because we commonly use the term sex to refer to differences in anatomy?

Even if you accept this statement (and I am not convinced it hasn't been edited), 80% of trans women who retain their Male genitals would not have changed sex. Neither would most transmen.

NightLion · 22/12/2019 06:37

The batshittery on Twitter is out of this world. l've only been on there 2 days and I've never witnessed so many unhinged concentated in one place. Debbie is smart, eloquent and passionate. A clear rational voice in toxic swamp.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 22/12/2019 05:57

“To a scientist, he said, anatomy could appear male, female or somewhere in between, but a man who transitioned could be said to change sex."

That’s very careful, (and cowardly). “Could be said to”, is just a way of saying, “I don’t believe it, but I’m not willing to be honest”. Or, I suppose, I see women as so insubstantial that there’s no reason a man can’t be a woman if he says so.

A man who wears a nappy, “could be said to be a baby”. A dog wearing a shark suit, “could be said to be an ocean predator”. A squirrel falling out of a tree, “could be said to be flying”. Except, not, you know, in the real world of facts.

Scientists seem strong on the ethics of science, only until it interferes with their misogyny.

That Debbie Hayton is being accused of hate speech for speaking her own truth, sees us entering into the Year of Total Batshittery.

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