JK Rowling - Thread 2

So in other words "I don't do class analysis" from Caitlin.

Just correcting myself, this quote from Caitlin Moran from 2012 might clear things up a bit:

The word “tranny” was interesting because a load of people really jumped on that. Three of my friends are transvestites, and we had always used the word “tranny” to mean transvestite, not transsexual, and didn’t know that that was a massive issue. Initially I was kind of equally tetchy, like, ‘There’s no greater friend of the gays! How dare you?” But after the misunderstanding that happened on Twitter, I researched lots and came across the word “cis” which I’d never come across before, and again it comes back to the idea of normality, so that educated me and that’s fantastic, that’s why it’s brilliant that Twitter’s there. It educated me about “cis” and “tranny” and “trans” in a way that I have educated people about feminism, so it was all very useful.

I absolutely agree with you Datun.

Because you feel responsible for something doesn't mean you are

I don't disagree. And I definitely think there is a line.

It's one thing perhaps choosing your themes carefully because children are reading your books. It's quite another being responsible for adults who can't sort fantasy from fiction.

The American fandom obsessive seem the most entwined in the HP fantasy world, with HP themed houses and all in between. Grown up people many of them. Weird that Americans are so mad about what is essentially a British boarding school tale with magic.
Many on Twitter are acting like they have accidently finding out they were adopted or that thier dad is a bigamist with a whole other family. They will be in therapy for years.
Still the rest of us will just carry on liking the books, introducing them to our kids, and enjoying the Strike ones. (the BBC adaptation is not half bad either).

I did however notice when I took my son the Harry Potter Studios that most people there were adults, hardly any kids. I was also 60% more excited than my son about the whole thing - but I did just go back to normal life when I got home. No HP merch for me.

Some (not all) will be people just jumping on a bandwagon, rather than actually being addicted to Harry Potter of course.

The detrans sub on reddit spells out time and time again that it's all a cult online, and that it feels amazingly warm and welcoming and affirmative when you're part of it, and then very difficult and mean if you try to leave.

Right now there will be at least a few people online writing numerous "my heart is broken!" messages so that they can join in with their friends, and/or beg for sympathy and attention too.

I refuse to believe they're all really THAT invested in a book.

The way the internet allows people to be detached from reality and even alter history has created a generation of people who want to do the same in real life.

Caitlin Moran got called out a few years ago for referring to a transsexual friend (iirc) as a "tranny"... She said it was meant affectionately and that's what they called themselves (again, iirc) but she got a taste of the animosity there.

Male colleague of mine tried to use it as an excuse to hate on her but it was really because he found her annoying but didn't want to just say that, better to say she was phobic or something.

I'm not sure one can decide whether it should or shouldn't be a responsibility. I should imagine you just feel it.

Because you feel responsible for something doesn't mean you are.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost

I'm not sure one can decide whether it should or shouldn't be a responsibility. I should imagine you just feel it.

Knowing that these people are deeply affected by your words? I think it's hard to remain neutral.

I mean, to me, the reaction is absolutely unhinged. But that seems like a product of many Internet users living their lives in a fantasy world. It's easy to be someone else online.

Caitlin Moran says nothing. I can barely read her column now. Not quite a collaborator but not standing up for the Resistance. Others such as Lucy Mangan have managed to retweet the odd thing that signals where they are. Caitlin - nothing.

I don't imagine this is very comfortable for her. It's a huge responsibility. All of it.

It's not her responsibility to care for adults and young adults who read her books, they are adults.

She must already know that she has profoundly affected a whole generation. The fan mail that she gets must show her that they are utterly wedded to her fantasy. And probably know far more about her characters and she can ever remember.

Yeah, she must constantly receive some weeeeiiiiiirrrrrddddd shit.

She must already know that she has profoundly affected a whole generation. The fan mail that she gets must show her that they are utterly wedded to her fantasy. And probably know far more about her characters and she can ever remember.

I wonder if she realised quite how many of them might be trans tho.

I don't imagine this is very comfortable for her. It's a huge responsibility. All of it.

I wonder if JK Rowling is thinking, re the Potter obsessives who are now turning on her, 'well, good. These people are a little too obsessed, it'll be good for them to go away and read something else.'

She's more likely thinking "I've got presents to wrap and can't find the bastard sellotape." Because you know, she's a real person and it's almost Christmas.

I wonder if JK Rowling is thinking, re the Potter obsessives who are now turning on her, 'well, good. These people are a little too obsessed, it'll be good for them to go away and read something else.'

That is the direction that transactivism has taken - and thus wiping out the entire history of women's oppression due to their biological realty and reproductive role.

Which comes in really handy if you're someone who doesn;t want to admit that women have been oppressed by men throughout the ages, or that transwomen are a vulnerable minority, even more oppressed than women. In fact women are the oppressors of transwomen, if they don't centre them in feminism and chant TWAW, and allow them into women-only spaces.

In fact, let's just go gender neutral everything - after all, women aren't oppressed by their biology. Biology is irrelevant - so lets throw established safeguarding of women out the window - what could possibly go wrong?

That Rayya Ghul thread is mad - basically reads to me she says if we ignore our biology we won't be discriminated against because of it.

Yes, that's exactly what I thought?

She is saying that if we just ignore biology, just see everyone as 'people', allow anyone to be a woman etc, then the class of people with XY chromosomes and penises will just cease to oppress the class of people with XX chromosomes and vaginas? That's its women's fault that we are oppressed because we talk about our biology and if we just stopped going on about it we would be liberated?

Surely she can't really think that?!

Twitter is mad sometimes!

I know this won't be a popular opinion but i don't really blame high-profile figures for not stating an opinion on this, especially if it's important to you that be specific about what you do and don't believe.

We've seen how a totally innocuous tweet by jk and the whole Maya case have been whipped up on social media so most people won't be able to even identify what's actually been said and what hasn't. Everything gets distorted beyond belief to a ridiculous level. You would have no control over what people state you believe, even if you've set out a very detailed and logical witness statement, as Maya did. It didn't matter. People don't care what anyone actually believe but what everyone else says they do. I wouldn't want to be part of that on many subjects tbh.

Would be nice if they did, though!

(And yes, it frustrates me that there is froth on both sides: exaggeration, unpleasantness, distortion, lack of critical analysis, misunderstanding. Often due to very human factors like not having the time or ability to read primary sources etc). I just happen to think this is approx 95% on one side and 5% on the other....

I had a brief look at Twitter yesterday and there's a load of stuff on the lines of poor, vulnerable trans people (e..g "when you know that 40% of trans people attempt suicide, why would you decide to make their lives harder?" or "It's been a tough week for trans people - cis people, can you let me know when and why you became a trans ally?") and generally a bunch of self-pitying shit that makes no attempt to engage with the actual arguments or the one germane fact, which is that a woman has been sacked for believing in biological reality.

That Rayya Ghul thread is mad - basically reads to me she says if we ignore our biology we won't be discriminated against because of it. Has she read Invisible Women?!

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1208592115304812544.html?refreshed=yes

Read it aloud - oh, go on!

Someone on the AIBU thread posted this, unfortunately it is now full so cannot comment

Jeansforme

I’m late to this’ll I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned but she got fired for sending 150 transphobic tweets. It wasn’t one incident

I'm assuming these tweets included things like "men can't become women" rather than threats and hatred against trans people? But a nice bit of misinformation to close the thread with!

Has Caitlin Moran said anything? I really like her writing, but I’m now a bit suspicious of her motives.
How can you claim to be so invested in feminism and not even comment on the biggest bun fight and threat to women’s rights since the fight for suffrage?

Thanks for the tips. Yes, I'm on desktop and will try that.