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Original poster

Forced to share a room with a TW

261 replies

ILoveJKR · 20/12/2019 20:24

I am in a quandary and cannot talk about this in real life so I hope some of you can understand. Some background information for explanation.
I have a hobby which is mostly male orientated but which a lot of women indulge in too. The hobby has several different ways of enjoying it, think cycling where you can compete, or go for days out, or challenge yourself, visit museums or exhibitions devoted to this hobby, etc. I also belong to several clubs for this hobby.
I met a TW who happens to like the same part of the hobby as I enjoy, so we are often together indulging our shared interest. I care for TW in the same way as I would care for any human being, but I cannot really say the TW is a friend. We have no shared experiences, TW is a bit awkward and over-sensitive socially and looks and mostly behaves like a man but because we are together so often everyone assumes that we are besties.
I have twice shared accommodation with TW on hobby trips (my choice) but I always get changed in the loo and leave the room when TW gets changed. I'm accepting that people can live however they like but males should not be in female spaces.
So, onto my dilemma. One of my clubs has organised an overnight trip to a competition with 5 men and 3 women and TW. The man organising the trip does not know TW is a TW and the two other women do not know TW is a TW. Their only contact to date is via a watsapp group and TW uses a feminine name.
I know that it will be assumed that I invited TW on the trip. But the person joined my club and booked without ever discussing it with me. Free country and all that, I cannot control who joins what club and who books on what trip, but the organiser has put us 3 women and TW in one room (cheap hostel accommodation). And I know that there will be awkwardness for the other two women when they find out they are sharing with an XY person. And I know it will come back on me because everyone assumes TW is my 'friend'.
This is a real-life example for me that we cannot allow this fiction to continue. Men cannot become women and women should not be forced to share their spaces.

OP posts:
isabellerossignol · 21/12/2019 14:31

There was no false representation to the OP. The OP shared a room in the full knowledge of Jo's status but now thinks it's her moral duty to warn others about Jo.

Because the OP knew for herself whether she was willing to share or not. By telling the other women she is giving them the opportunity to consent or not consent to sharing. Why would anyone want to remove a woman's right to decide her own boundaries? Unless of course they don't think she should be allowed to set her own boundaries.

HorseWithNoBlueHair · 21/12/2019 14:30

I bet you think that was a real gotcha question.

Not at all. Pleased you answered as most of the time it's ignored. Have a mince pie!

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 14:23

But the OP wasn't talking about being concerned for her safety, it was about two other women turning up thinking they are sharing a room with a woman when actually it's a transwoman

The OP has taken it upon herself to adopt this protective role. She knows nothing about the other 2 women or what their attitude might be. Personally I think 2 women who are happy to share cheap hostel accommodation with strangers are probably quite robust. Personally I'd like to be warned that the evening might turn out to be an all girls together giggle fest over chocolate and prosecco so I could book a single room.

The 'any other minorities' thing makes no sense at all because no other minorities are trying to force everyone else to indulge them in false representation

There was no false representation to the OP. The OP shared a room in the full knowledge of Jo's status but now thinks it's her moral duty to warn others about Jo. In this particular case I think substitute other minorities is a valid point.

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 21/12/2019 14:22

ilovejkr

I think thats the best thing to do, i think it was a very good idea from the earlier poster

isabellerossignol · 21/12/2019 14:16

The OP has voluntarily twice shared a room with "Jo" (as another poster has named her) without giving any indication she is unhappy or uncomfortable, other than changing in the bathroom. Jo has so far not been given any indication her status causes a concern.

But the OP wasn't talking about being concerned for her safety, it was about two other women turning up thinking they are sharing a room with a woman when actually it's a transwoman.

The 'any other minorities' thing makes no sense at all because no other minorities are trying to force everyone else to indulge them in false representation.

Original poster
ILoveJKR · 21/12/2019 14:12

I'm still here. An awful lot of assumptions made about me on this thread. In my opening post where I refer to the sharing of rooms, can I point out that I actually offered to share with transwoman because very few of the other women were happy to do so. I was actually trying to be nice to transwoman and tried my best to mitigate anyone's embarrassment by changing in the loo. But call me a bigot if you like.
As for my original problem, as suggested, I am going to set up a meeting beforehand to discuss who will bring the chocolate, the crisps and the prosecco and everyone can make up their own minds about the situation.
I care about all human beings ( as I said in my opening post) and I don't want the other women to feel awkward nor the transwoman to feel awkward and I don't want anyone coming back to me and asking why I did not alert anyone to a potential situation. But hey-ho, because I care about the other womens' and my own embarrassment I get called a bigot.
I will not be back on this thread again. But thank you, those who have understood my dilemma.

OP posts:
TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 14:10

In that case surely if the transwoman is genuinely just wanting to live their life without making anyone else feel uncomfortable or intimidated, they'd be happy enough for the OP to warn people in advance? The last thing they'd want is to arrive and see that the other woman were upset or frightened by them

On the other hand, if they believe that their right to be validated outstrips the women's right to feel comfortable, why would anyone care about their feelings, since they'd be making it clear that they don't care about anyone else's?

So one way or another, why would telling other people in advance be a bad thing?

The OP has voluntarily twice shared a room with "Jo" (as another poster has named her) without giving any indication she is unhappy or uncomfortable, other than changing in the bathroom. Jo has so far not been given any indication her status causes a concern.

If I were sharing a room with anyone other than my husband, regardless of their sex, I would do the same.

For once the TRA trope of substitute "gay" or "black" or "Jewish " actually makes sense - if you change your post to refer to any other minority it becomes pretty vile.

eBooksAreBooks · 21/12/2019 13:32

TW completely lacks female intuition and empathy.

What on earth is this bollocks? Either humans display empathy or they don't. It has nothing to do with chromosomes or girly-brain.

I don't think I'd fancy sharing a room with someone who thought a bottle of Prosecco was hilarious either. Have you perhaps read too many Chalet School books OP? (other boarding school books are available from all good retailers)

thatdamnwoman · 21/12/2019 13:25

Helpfulperson and Limpbizkit both referred to the OP as the TW's friend and there were others. The OP picked Helpful up on it so she noticed. The OP wrote

I cannot really say the TW is a friend. We have no shared experiences, TW is a bit awkward and over-sensitive socially and looks and mostly behaves like a man but because we are together so often everyone assumes that we are besties.

They are regarded by the other club members as friends. If there aren't many women involved in this hobby (my female partner used to be a rock-climber and she was often the only woman on a weekend away) then she will, by default, end up paired with the TW because it solves a problem for the men in the club – not just who the TW can share a room with, but who he can tag along with. She has agreed to this in the past but she doesn't have to do so in future. Easier to think that OP and TW are besties than acknowledge that this is a complex and difficult situation.

isabellerossignol · 21/12/2019 13:21

I missed a word out. Imagine you're the transwoman. You think OP is your friend. OP then rings around and tells everyone about you.
Make sense now?

In that case surely if the transwoman is genuinely just wanting to live their life without making anyone else feel uncomfortable or intimidated, they'd be happy enough for the OP to warn people in advance? The last thing they'd want is to arrive and see that the other woman were upset or frightened by them.

On the other hand, if they believe that their right to be validated outstrips the women's right to feel comfortable, why would anyone care about their feelings, since they'd be making it clear that they don't care about anyone else's?

So one way or another, why would telling other people in advance be a bad thing?

reginafelangee · 21/12/2019 13:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FlyingOink · 21/12/2019 12:58

I met a TW who happens to like the same part of the hobby as I enjoy, so we are often together indulging our shared interest. I care for TW in the same way as I would care for any human being, but I cannot really say the TW is a friend. We have no shared experiences, TW is a bit awkward and over-sensitive socially and looks and mostly behaves like a man but because we are together so often everyone assumes that we are besties.

I have twice shared accommodation with TW on hobby trips (my choice)

This just reads wrong to me.
No shared experiences - except the obscure hobby and all the time they spend doing it?
Looks and behaves like a man...non-sequitur about being perceived as friends?
Who has assumed this? Has OP ever challenged it?
From Jo's perspective, if it walks like a friend and quacks like a friend...

And why share a room if you're uncomfortable being associated with this person? If you don't want people to think you are friends?
It's primary school stuff. I never knew hang gliding was like this.

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:53

2BthatUnnoticed and FlyingOink

You both make very good points.

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:51

Just tagging on to say to the OP that she ought not to be forced bydefaultinto being constantly paired with the TW. You were quite clear in your OP that you weren't friends, just people who were thrown together, and yet so many posters have commented that you and this TW are friends. I hear it. Can you talk to the organisers of all the events/ clubs you attend and make it clear that you don't want to be permanently paired up with this person?

There is absolutely nothing in the OP's account which supports the assertion she is forced bydefaultinto being constantly paired with the trans woman.

2BthatUnnoticed · 21/12/2019 12:48

Women = adult human female

female spaces - 100%

But something in the OP (style or syntax or summat) was off... come on people, we should be able to tolerate calling a spade a spade!

FlyingOink · 21/12/2019 12:47

yet so many posters have commented that you and this TW are friends
Where?

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:47

FlyingOink

The OP has said all along that they're not friends, they are just people who know each other
I missed a word out. Imagineyou'rethe transwoman.Youthink OP is your friend. OP then rings around and tells everyone about you
Make sense now?

It made sense the first time. This "oh they're not a friend" is splitting hairs.

thatdamnwoman · 21/12/2019 12:46

Just tagging on to say to the OP that she ought not to be forced by default into being constantly paired with the TW. You were quite clear in your OP that you weren't friends, just people who were thrown together, and yet so many posters have commented that you and this TW are friends. I hear it. Can you talk to the organisers of all the events/ clubs you attend and make it clear that you don't want to be permanently paired up with this person?

Can someone remind me which particular type of feminism thinks that women's rights are subordinate to the rights of a man, because it's not one I'm familiar with.

FlyingOink · 21/12/2019 12:45

I think it's reasonable to think that women shouldn't be expected to share facilities with men (no matter how they identify) whilst still being concerned about OP's approach to someone who has actually done nothing wrong.
Jo (as named above!) has shared a room with OP twice so probably thinks other women will be fine with it too. If OP had expressed her concerns earlier or just had a conversation with Jo, then Jo might have considered that booking a single room would be less hassle all round.

This rather contrived situation is nothing like an addicted abused woman who has lost her children and is currently incarcerated with a male-born sex offender. It's not the same situation.
OP has plenty of agency in this scenario, the female prisoner has none.

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:43

Yes, I know that. But that still doesn't necessarily make them friends. It makes them people who agreed to share a room for convenience

Fine - I'll re- word the point being made.

A person who has spent a lot of time with you on a shared hobby, including voluntarily sharing a bedroom with you, has seen fit to warn everyone about you.

FlyingOink · 21/12/2019 12:38

The OP has said all along that they're not friends, they are just people who know each other.
I missed a word out. Imagine you're the transwoman. You think OP is your friend. OP then rings around and tells everyone about you.
Make sense now?

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:38

HorseWithNoBlueHair

Dear Crane

I'm on the fence on many of the gender critical points made on this forum

You are just the right person to ask my question which seems to stump most people:

Please could you define the word "woman" without using the word "woman"?

Thanking you in anticipation

I bet you think that was a real gotcha question. Woman is biological female. My sitting on the fence referred to certain attitudes expressed on here.

isabellerossignol · 21/12/2019 12:36

Yes, I know that. But that still doesn't necessarily make them friends. It makes them people who agreed to share a room for convenience.

TheCraneWife · 21/12/2019 12:33

The OP has twice voluntarily shared a room with this person. That is not the same as being allocated a shared room with a touring orchestra.

isabellerossignol · 21/12/2019 12:29

Sharing a hobby with someone and sharing a room with them doesn't mean you're friends. It doesn't even mean you like them. It just means that you have a shared interest and are travelling to the same place at the same time and rooms are being shared to save money.

I've played in orchestras before with people I actively disliked and at least one person who I was terrified of, so spending time pursuing a shared hobby certainly didn't make us friends.