Forced to share a room with a TW

ILoveJKR I hope you get this resolved before you go.

Of course you are right to worry that the other women might feel wrong footed.
You are also, sadly, right to worry that they might look upon you differently and spoil the opportunity to make new friends who do your hobby.

I totally get what Kantastic was saying and I was reading the situation in exactly the same way. I think the OP has been gentle and tactful, which is kind. But being gentle and tactful does not mean that there is not a problem; and it is ironic, that to an extent, some of the people on this thread are punishing her for her tact in a similar way to "Jo" by basically behaving as if "if you don't complain you're fine with everything and you can't go back on it now"

I totally get the dynamic of allowing it to happen that you're hanging out with someone you don't really see as a friend, just because it seems to suit them and everyone else - do the "is she your friend or not?!" crew really not get this?

ILoveJKR I just wanted to say you sound like a very kind and caring person. I hope it all works out.

Thanks thatdamnwoman - I had missed the bit about What's App.

XXstatic, if you go back and read the OP again you will see that this is a one-off group of people who've signed up to go and do an activity. OP doesn't know the other women, the other women don't know OP or TW.
They'll see 'Jo' listed as a room-mate but until they get there and see for themselves they won't know 'Jo' is TW unless the organiser or the OP tells them.

OP, I'd get over being nice and accommodating and contact the organiser and tell him that it's his duty to tell the other women the truth of the situation so that, if necessarily, alternative accommodation can be arranged.

If these two statements are true, it follows that the TW must present as completely male

Not getting the logic

The OP has already said that the organiser and other women have never met the TW

Never mind the troll-hunting, this just makes no sense.

OP says TW does not pass.

OP says that no one else in the group knows that the TW is trans.

If these two statements are true, it follows that the TW must present as completely male. That being the case, why would anyone organising the rooms put the TW in with the women, as the organiser will assume the TW is male? And why would the OP need to warn anyone else?

@lifeisgoodagain - for me, it would be not knowing. If I'm in a mixed-sex dorm I would like to know - and be given a choice not to be in a mixed-sex intimate situation.

A dorm room?

Whilst I understand what you are saying, the flip side is that it's a dorm room situation and most these days are mixed sex anyway in my experience. As long as your tw friend is respectful and gives the others space to change etc I don't see the issue in this situation - it's not a random person stripped off in the women's changing room

I don't like sharing rooms with people I don't know. Sharing rooms wit family & friends is difficult enough ...

So OP I understand how you feel.

And someone - whatever their sense of themselves is - who is insensitive to this is just an insensitive person, full stop.

But I've noticed this with some transwomen who transition later in life - people I know (colleagues) and TW in public. They've been socialised as men and they really have NO IDEA about being socialised and conditioned as a girl and woman. No idea. I guess it's part of their mental health condition ...

Would a woman be happy sharing a room with a physical male who they didn’t know.

I would not share a room with someone I don’t know and secondly with a male bodied person I don’t know. So why would anyone think I would be ok to share a room with a trans woman I didn’t know? It just doesn’t make sense.

I don't think that someone with gender dysphoria is awful either.

But I do think that someone with gender dysphoria who thinks that their feelings matter more than women's feelings is awful.

I agree with kantastic and would also be a bit worried that the friendship with ‘jo’ meant more to them than it does to OP.
And I suspect some of the awkwardness of the wording of op was due to trying to avoid use of pronouns. It can really tie things up in knots!

On the other it must be horrible to feel that you are genuinely a woman (or should have been born one) and then know that people think you are something so awful that they need to warn other people about you

Well do you feel terribly sorry for all the men going on the trip who have been told they are not sharing with the women?? This is so incredibly disingenuous. She''s not going to warn them because this person is "so awful" - she wants to warn the other women because this person is not a woman and the single sex room will not be a single sex room but will be a mixed sex room.

This transwoman would indeed face many challenges I'm sure. None of these are more important than the women in the room who have the right to not share with a male bodied person for any reason whatsoever.

Tranwomen''s feelings are not more important than actual women's feelings and indeed their safety. The transwoman is as likely or unlikely as any other male on the trip to assault a woman.....

If this was about excluding the transwoman from the dinner table totally different issue.

On the other it must be horrible to feel that you are genuinely a woman (or should have been born one) and then know that people think you are something so awful that they need to warn other people about you.

I don't think people with gender dysphoria are awful. I do think a male who considers themselves a woman is not actually a woman and I would not want to encounter them anywhere I would not want to encounter perfectly nice men like my son or father.

I think people with gender dysphoria need to learn to accept their sex even if they present as the opposite sex.

Much like friends who are alcoholics have to deal with a world where people drink at most social events.

The world doesn't prioritise any one person's feelings so we all have to deal as best we can. Expecting women to share with a male without asking them first is unreasonable.

My point was.. it’s not this dark secret someone is being “warned” about. It’s basic info. I’d want to know whether someone snored for goodness sakes. Let alone whether someone was a different sex.

On the other it must be horrible to feel that you are genuinely a woman..

Ah! There's that feel word again.

There is nothing “awful” about someone having a gender identity, nor about being born male or female. It is just basic info for goodness sakes. Anyway this thread is weird so I’m out.

No one is saying that a trans person is so awful other people need to be warned.
People are saying that women shouldn't be put in a position where they feel obliged to share a mixed sex room, and too embarassed to say no.

I’m really conflicted about this. On the one hand the women may not be happy or feel frightened or that their boundaries are being violated.

On the other it must be horrible to feel that you are genuinely a woman (or should have been born one) and then know that people think you are something so awful that they need to warn other people about you.

The pre meet is a good idea if they all turn up. I would be interested to know how nhs gender identity clinics advise their patients in these situations.

I would go as far to say that the GRA needs repealing.

It definitely needs repealing, it's crazy that it was ever passed in the first place.

Exactly ArabellaDoreenFig
We see it and we are not standing for it any longer.
This thread feeds in to the much bigger picture of the erosion of our rights in plain sight and us colluding in it to be nice.
Feck that. Even my previously woke 20 year old daughter now sees it. Once you do it is impossible to believe you ever didn't see it.
I'm glad the spotlight is on this issue.
I would go as far to say that the GRA needs repealing.

theunknownknown

You put it more succinctly than me, but I just wanted to respond to the comment

my respect for the trans woman's right to self identify trumps that for the bio woman's right to say no

How can anyone think that removing a woman’s right to say no is ever a good thing? In any context?

The continued pushback against women’s rights to their own boundaries is straight out of Gilead, whilst we were keeping our eye on the right and making sure women’s rights were respected the left crept in with their anti-women venom, well we fucking see you and we aren’t standing for it.

#thisisnotadrill

I suppose my respect for the trans woman's right to self identify trumps that for the bio woman's right to say no
You ain't no feminist bruv

Have a meeting and then consider backing out at the last minute on this occasion, but not telling anyone, and in future keep your plans secret. Personally I'd ask any organisers to not put you with TW in the future if they do turn up and I'd also willingly pay more for a private separate room anyway. In other words, treat them like any other annoying person you don't want to be around.