What if it's your JOB to recognise sex exists?

I had a conversation with a business analyst the other week (initiated by him) about how difficult it had been to persuade a healthcare organisation that they couldn’t just change the “sex” field on their databases to “gender” and still expect to be able to give effective care to patients. He said it was an uphill battle to get them to have two fields
Tell me why knowing what gender someone considers themselves to be is important?

Ironically, people who would call me a Terf and claim that TWAW would also call me a swerf. Yet anyone working in the sex industry will be very clear on what sex their sexworker should be.

I think Bowl's just really busy with young Ramekin Babelfish. She did pop up a few days ago and post something, but is running silent, running deep again. I miss her too.

I miss @BowlofBabelfish

Me too where is she? Was she banned?

I understand people in science and medicine who are not involved in the discussion because they fear for themselves, their families, and the researchers who depend upon them for their funding/reputation etc.

I do not understand people who specialise in sex and reproduction who claim that sex is beyond dimorphic simplicity.

It seems that the people who do not believe sex is binary in science and medicine Twitter are vocal about it. This is where some of the imbalanced debate lies.

Eg, a Professor Public Health with a special interest in sexual and reproductive health retweeted this thread as a comment on the JKR tweets (shortly after claiming that GC feminists are funded by rightwing money):

Apparently, we're gonna talk about sex. Like physical sex! Because... there's some confusion.

First, sex defined: We're talking physical sex here, not gender. Body parts, hormones, and genetics (and more).

BLUF: BIOLOGICAL sex is a spectrum

Ok, everyone's super familiar with the XX/XY dichotomy, right? Yeah, what we all learned in like... 4th grade? And that's great, it gives you a starting point. But it's... well it's only the very starting point.

The IDEA is, XX is girl, XY is boy, right?

Welllll... that's not totally right. There are XY people, who have ovaries! And give birth! AH! And XX people who have male bodies and functional sperm! Double AH! [Thread continues]

twitter.com/ScienceVet2/status/1035246030500061184?s=20

Do we think this professor genuinely doesn't know instinctively which patient in front of her needs to use which form of contraception or prophylactic?

I miss @BowlofBabelfish

designers and manufacturers of sex aids

This company seem unsure about which sex class have clitorises.

From their website:

"Clitoral vibrators are amazing – did you know that over a 1/3 of people who identify as female NEED clitoral stimulation to have an orgasm."

So not for transmen then. Even though they have the correct body parts for said vibrator.

It’s a good example of hubris leading to one’s downfall.
But.
If that person had died, the family could have sued, and asked the obvious question of whether someone's delusion would have prevented them receiving treatment in any other situation. The objectively wrong medical treatment was given. It's not like opting out of blood transfusions or declining any treatment, the medical team knew this path was wrong but decided that affirmation was more important than clinical outcome.

I know medicine is consent based, but there's a reason doctors don't let anorexics starve themselves to death because they think they look fat.

If I had a sister or daughter who died because the hospital gave her the treatment for a man I would claim negligence.

@FlyingOink

The renal failure case is tragic.

It is a particular headfuck because it seems like the person in questions right to be defined in all cases as a male (as shown by his insistence on changing clinics and reluctance to be admitted to hospital) conflicts with his right to be given treatment when he meets the clinical criteria for a female-sexed person but not that of a male-sexed body.

It’s a good example of hubris leading to one’s downfall.

Marshmallow :

"When a stallion gets his bollocks chopped off he becomes a gelding, no matter how much pink sparkly hoof polish he wears"

It actually never occurred to me the bit about our medical records and how it's based on gender. Not sex.

Interesting!

Sadly I'm sure Yaniv will get his way and some woke gynaecologist will see him.

Thankfully he's so clueless the gynaecologist could probably give him a prostate check and tell him that's what normally happens. Although it'd probably be a bit uncomfortable with his mum in the room too.

Patient was told to not continue with testosterone but did it anyway and decided to go to an "affirming" medical facility that prolonged her suffering and nearly killed her.
From Reddit: amp.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/8g6yke/transgender_man_being_evaluated_for_a_kidney/

Ah yes bt that's jut a transman, who cares. I'm talking about people here, men and transwomen.

Someone almost did:
clinchem.aaccjnls.org/content/63/11/1680
A transman who was assessed according to the male criteria for kidney disease.

Tbh it's only a matter of time before someone dies because of this utter bollocks. The sooner it happens the sooner we can start to sort it out and see what harm has been done.

Getting on this thread to read later as I've been wondering similar
"If Maya's judgement were to be upheld I could be sacked for teaching kids about sex and sacked for not doing"
And you'll still get people calling you names.

Although stab vests are designed only for men and do not accommodate officer breasts comfortably ... Apparently ...
There are ones that fit women but they'd have to be bought separately. I'm guessing economies of scale mean that happens less often.
Also tall or short men need different sized vests. Too long and it affects mobility at the waist and armpit, too short and you just get stabbed in the abdomen.

I had my babies back when maternity leave was 5 months. I was still sleep deprived, breast feeding and recovering from a 3rd degree tear at that stage. Also had PND. It was awful. It takes a year IMO.

Sorry. Probably a bit of a thread derail.

I don't disagree with shared parental leave, personally I think there should be more paternity leave to be taken simultaneously so that fathers can support new mothers as well as being more involved in the care of the baby.
But maternity leave is maternity leave for the reason that women need that time to recover physically not just because it is assumed they should be the ones caring for a newborn and I am not happy with anything that impacts a woman's experience of motherhood and subsequent recovery.
It unfortunately tends to lead to a dismissal and lack of understanding of the real needs of women. Postnatal care is very much a poor relation within the health service/maternity service for this reason imo - you wouldn't have to try hard to find a thread about that on Mumsnet. Or on the physical consequences of childbirth many of which are still almost taboo to discuss irl.
My DD has recently started work as a trainee in the theatres at my hospital. She has just done one week orientation in the maternity/gynaecology theatres. In that one week she has seen three third degree tears and is very shocked. Those women have some very unpleasant physical injuries to recover from whilst trying to get to grips with a new baby and motherhood. I've seen some shocking birth injury threads on here too. I don't think many people realise how common these sorts of problems are.
I just am very suspicious of anything that downgrades the protections women need.

So please stand firm. Only women get pregnant, have babies. And they deserve time to recover.

There is still the law that women who have given birth have to take two weeks off. No question about that. I agree with you, it takes a lot more time than that.

But on balance I support shared parental leave as a concept. Encouraging men (secondary carers) to take time off will help remove the perception that everything to do with children is women's work and in the long run this will help women in the workplace and go towards removing the gender pay gap.

That is so important VanGoghsDog
One of my conspiracy theories is how a lot of this is to remove all women's protections, things like maternity leave being right up there. It sneaks in in lots of seems harmless or even progressive ways. Shared maternity leave for instance. It's all very well wanting to encourage men's engagement with childcare responsibilities, and for some families where the woman is perhaps the main wage earner it may work.
But (ex midwife speaking here) I am passionate about the fact that it is the WOMAN who has gone through pregnancy and birth and all the physical, hormonal and emotional upheavals. Not everyone bounces straight back. We always said "it takes nine months to make a baby, nine months to recover".
Funnily enough my recent blood transfusion training touched on this. The blood transfusion specialist nurse is fanatical about addressing anaemia pre-op (where possible) with things like iron infusions to help minimise the need for a blood transfusion at the time of the op or immediately after. For lots of good reasons.
She advised midwives present of the time it takes for a woman who is moderately anaemic post natal (perhaps as a result of a pph but also because the baby leaches iron from the mother in pregnancy) to recover her iron reserves. If she gets pregnant again soon after, before fully restoring healthy iron levels then she will be chronically anaemic in the next pregnancy and at greater risk come the birth. She mentioned (I have emailed her to ask for research references) that research is showing this impacts the health of the baby in utero and after and is associated with a range of developmental disorders.

So please stand firm. Only women get pregnant, have babies. And they deserve time to recover.

When I get those references I will pass them on to anyone interested. DM me. Might be after Christmas as she is on holidays.

I work in HR. I have to be so careful what I say.

I was discussing enhancing our parental leave policy this week and I said something, and the guy I was talking to said "but only women get pregnant", and I wanted to hug him because I was so bored of having to struggle with words to make it sound like the sex of the person didn't matter.