Laurence Fox (actor) Stands With Maya

He's said some dodgy stuff about Jews - about how when he was a kid, he believed Jews could have been saved from the Holocaust if they'd just converted - and mixed-race people as well. Basically complaining about how his nephews and nieces are mixed-race and how white people are going to be the minority, or words to that effect. Richard Ayoade must have loved that.

YY Freedom i saw him on that He came across as quite vile.

Emilia was like "Oh God" when he mentioned fingering.

Fox is a classic example of a man who is inured to his inherent sense of superiority, whilst also probably hating himself, because deep down he knows he is the product of immense privilege and nepotism

This is so true. He knows perfectly well he’d have got nowhere without the Fox name and his upbringing. He hated his public school too.

Well notterfnorcis. I think a lot of ppl think it is a pile of stemmed stuff but are afraid to say it

I mean can anyone with a brain believe this stuff ?

So if you’re a politician desperate for power you have to toe line espicially in the Labour Party

The vast majority of people would be gender critical if they understood what it meant - rejecting the idea of a 'gendered soul'.

Unfortunately only right-wingers feel free to say it.

@FreedomOf

I barely registered this guy's existence until the storm in a teacup erupted last week, and I did a bit of googling and yeah, he seems like a knob. Borderline MRA and very likely a Tory.

Which doesn't mean he's wrong about Maya or about 'woke' culture though. But yeah, stopped clock is right.

Did anyone see him on Celebrity Gogglebox? I took against him on that and actually had to turn over when he came on. I think he’s a knob. I don’t particularly care that he’s gender critical. Stopped clock and all that.

I dunno iced. It’s like a power kick for a lot of people especially men

They get the chance to call women terfs. When they mean bitch or whatever insult they couldn’t get away with in SM before wokeness became a thing

Now they can say it and be praised for it

Laurence Fox is right about Maya and he was right on Question Time too.... but overall he seems a bit of a twat.

As an aside, between this and Ricky Gervais' monologue at the Golden Globes, I'm wondering if this is the beginnning of the end of 'woke' culture?

"His bleating about, "Not being able to help who I am, waah! " on Question Time was embarrassing."

He is spot on though. People are sick of it. Being told they are racist. Being told they are privileged for who they are. Being patronized by the woke.

And do tell, what did that lecturer have to add male for? This was about race, him being male had not much to do with that, but it was just another buzzword she could use to lob at him.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/20/laurence-fox-julie-walters-christopher-eccleston-working-class_n_9280758.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANfXyWNKTczxg7UuZTnS2kvWGLk7eUkqr3mICQ4GDUJzcWPpY8RnEewsYEx4SUqVw0kWUoVdz21p5ejmXhPNAPrQuO3sr4DkjnoEm_SmKoV760ZfpLjK-9w1babDDljT18FVKYBUQcF_A5n91ZGFtNKAPPcliGnu0b_Ez2zwCHjl

Because black and working class actors are known for the huge platform they have access to before they became famous...

I read a few interviews with Fox while he was married to Billie Piper and he occasionally said things that seemed a touch possessive. Which chimed with things that she said after their divorce about control in relationships.

I get what he meant, when he said he couldn't help what he is (as in straight white man) but that sort of thinking often cements the idea that TW are not W because the 'I know who I am and I will not apologise for it' inherent in what he said, allows some men to easily 'other' men who are more feminine as a bit deviant, thus wanting to keep them away from 'their women'. It feels very patriarchal to me.

He’s a shit stirring publicity seeker. Nothing more in it.

"Yes racism can come from the marginalised. But without any power structure behind it, it has no teeth"

Ive been trying to find a way to say this without it coming across wrongly

Its not racism in this case but my DH as a disabled man did experience disabilism from two people who work for the housing association we rent from (theres the power structure there) one was from the Muslim community and one from the LGBT community. Both marginalised groups. But this example shows that just because you are in or a part of a marginalised group yourself it doesnt mean that you would recognise that someone is in another marginalised group.

Sorry but i cant think of a better way of putting it and ive tried.

As long as he's not singing about it where I can hear

For Fox, feminism and woke are one and the same thing.

In the current climate, we could probably do without Fox on our side.

Having said that, this made me laugh:

The actor Laurence Fox has admitted that he once dumped a girlfriend for being “too woke” and said that he refuses to date women under 35 because of their politically correct views.

Well, that's something. Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

Just to be clear, I'm not particularly invested in any of it, I find most people banging on about perceived injustices a bit pathetic. I'm just trying to understand the push back against "woke" and why the position of the GC or anyone else is any better.

But isn't feminism ideology just another branch of woke? And therefore to be mocked. Or are you confining the notion of woke to racism?

Which aspects of feminism should we be laughing at?

Point. Head. Sailed.

I, personally, am more likely to poke fun at edgelords. What with liking a bit of mockery of my opponents, an' all. That said, po-faced puritans of any stripe are also often in my crosshairs.

Which aspects of feminism should we be laughing at?

Gawd. He's an actor and a good self promoter.

He genuinely doesn't like the excesses of Woke (I concur) and he is in denial about structural power relations (I do not concur).

He's created an online persona of Witty Edgelord both to mock the excesses of Woke and to promote himself. As the #notmynigel says, "He's a right wanker but you have to admit he's a funny one".

Until the Woke get a sense of humour, they're always going to lose out to the Witty Edgelord. People like to laugh.

Do you apply the same standards to feminism and the notion that women are held back by the patriarchy?

I'm not sure what you are saying, Goosefoot . Is it racist to suggest that the press were racist against MM? Or racist to suggest privileged white men like Fox don't understand what it is like to be a black woman under intense scrutiny and constant criticism for ridiculous things like avocados and not wanting to haul herself in front of the world's press 5 minutes after giving birth, and wondering whether she'd still get those attacks if she was white (which is what the academic on QT was getting at, I think)? Yes racism can come from the marginalised. But without any power structure behind it, it has no teeth, and very little relevance other than on the purely personal level, or at the most, a community level.

I don't actually agree that racist ideology, when embraced by the marginalised, is lacking teeth. I think it has a significant effect in maintaining a society that accepts racist ideology. Identity politics is a racist ideology at its core and it has captured the political left and especially academia and as long as that is the case those institutions will be dominated by racism. That non-white people like this academic hold that ideology strengthens its legitimacy significantly.

In the past, I don't think I'd have called someone who takes that perspective a racist in a personal sense, but I'm getting to the point where I think it needs to be said.

But yes, I am saying that I think that it's reasonable to query whether MM's treatment in the press is about racism when academics like that make that claim. Particularly when they are really making the claim in a non-specific way - she was treated badly by the press therefor it must be racism, not because of specific things that were said and done. The press treatment of Harry and Merkle was pretty predictable without any reference to her ethnicity, it's not like they don't have form for setting up that ind of situation.

I'm not sure what you are saying, Goosefoot . Is it racist to suggest that the press were racist against MM? Or racist to suggest privileged white men like Fox don't understand what it is like to be a black woman under intense scrutiny and constant criticism for ridiculous things like avocados and not wanting to haul herself in front of the world's press 5 minutes after giving birth, and wondering whether she'd still get those attacks if she was white (which is what the academic on QT was getting at, I think)?

Yes racism can come from the marginalised. But without any power structure behind it, it has no teeth, and very little relevance other than on the purely personal level, or at the most, a community level.

Which ideology are you speaking of?

The reason Fox has so many people following him is because he is appealing to the same demographic as Trump, Farage, Boris. These are all the people the left have apparently failed whilst too busy gushing over woke ideologies. I have a great deal of sympathy with some of that sentiment, whist at the same time, the lack of personal responsibility can be tiresome.

Fox, as is the case with the others, is a false prophet. He doesn't give a fuck about the poor, white, working class. He probably despises his new disciples, because Fox has no ideology, Fox is about Fox, and Fox is a classic example of a man who is inured to his inherent sense of superiority, whilst also probably hating himself, because deep down he knows he is the product of immense privilege and nepotism. I mean, why exactly did he get airtime on QT? What has he done to deserve that?