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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Self ID Stats

92 replies

LizzyButterfly · 17/12/2019 20:49

Having looked at the stats on "self ID" in terms of reform of the Gender Recognition Act, information from other countries that have adopted this are quite revealing. Trans people who apply per annum vs the population really shows how little an issue this really is.

Ireland: 129pa, pop. 4.83M
Denmark: 279pa, pop. 5.6M
Norway: 706pa, pop. 5.32M

I really don't know why it's such a problem????

OP posts:
SarahTancredi · 17/12/2019 23:15

I just wanna know how one set of people want this because of all the abuse and violence they face but another set of people afraid of the same predators and violent men are just worrying over nothing?

Why does providing an opportunity for the same people you are claiming hurt you, to then follow you wherever you go to get to you, seem like a good idea?

Makes no sense.Confused

littlbrowndog · 17/12/2019 23:12

Yeah who was that guy in was it unicef in Nepal convicted for sexual assaults against children.

Fuck knows how many he assaulted before he got caught as I guess the children he assaulted before being caught had no voice

No voices poor children have no voices

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 17/12/2019 23:05

Anyway, do you really, truly think a man would get a GRC just to get into a woman only space???

Oooh, let me see. In the past predatory men have been known to spend years training as teachers, doctors, priests, work their way into positions of power within the Scouts, sports coaching, the BBC, even set up entire charities just to access vulnerable women and children to abuse.

So do I think these same sort of men might go to the extraordinary lengths of filling in a form in order to access vulnerable women and children to abuse?

Of course I bloody do. How fucking stupid would you have to be to think otherwise?

CharlieParley · 17/12/2019 22:49

Referencing Norway is particularly odd given the striking differences in both population distribution and cultural attitudes towards mixed sex nudity.

And the three year ordeal of the woman who quite rightly complained about an unadulterated male who identifies as trans swanning about stark naked in the women's changing room. Dude got told off. He did it again. So the woman complained again and he sued her for harassment and whatnot.

It took fucking three years for the court to decide that she didn't harass him by objecting to a naked male in a female only space.

Norway, yet another country that enshrined self-id in law without once considering the fact that women have rights, too.

HandsOffMyRights · 17/12/2019 22:48

Link to full and eye-opening article here. I mean, who'd have thunk anyone would exploit such a system eh? Confused

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/are-female-prisoners-at-risk-from-transgender-inmates/

HandsOffMyRights · 17/12/2019 22:42

From The Spectator last year

'The criminal justice system merits quite a bit of thinking about. On the one hand, many of us can remember patients who were charged with crimes, convicted and who ended up on the sex offenders register when we thought that the same thing wouldn’t have happened if they weren’t a trans person.

The converse is the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences.

*It has been rather naïvely suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this.

These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system and even (in one very well evidenced case that a highly concerned Prison Governor brought particularly to my attention) a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard.

In summary, a representative body for psychologists and the leading expert in the field, speaking for other experts, submitted clear and quite extensive evidence to Parliament suggesting that some male sex-offending criminals have attempted to exploit existing gender-change rules for harmful and illegitimate purposes and that others are likely to attempt to do so in future.*

Let me put that another way. In 2015, the experts we collectively trust and pay to study the issues arising from allowing people to change gender told our elected representatives that there are non-trivial risks that some male criminals exploit gender-change rules to gain access to, and commit acts of sexual violence against, women. Three years later, a person born male, has been charged with four acts of sexual aggression against women in the prison system.

CharlieParley · 17/12/2019 22:41

Is it terribly churlish of me not to look forward to having to rehash the very same arguments all over again? Especially when every time the pro-reform talking point posted here by the what's the problem brigade mirror the very latest TRA talking points to a T?

I mean for the longest time we've had:

The EqA mandates males who identify as trans must not be excluded from female-only provisions.

Now it's

"The GRA has nothing to do with the EqA"

And does anyone ever think hang on, all these lifelong trade unionists, left-wingers, women's and/or gay rights campaigners are up in arms about this - fucking worldwide no less - maybe there is an issue?!

So just to make it easy for you, OP, here is what an expert on the law said:

"Saying changing the GRA doesn't change the EqA is like saying "It's ok everyone, we're keeping the door locked just as it always was" while making massive changes to your criteria for handing out keys."

And I too would like to know, very much so, how many women and girls are acceptable to you as collateral damage in pursuit of granting special privileges to a group of men that no other group in society is allowed, not even those legally protected by the EqA.

How many women and girls?

1...
50...
150...
3000...

How many?

LangCleg · 17/12/2019 22:38

Freudian slip!

HandsOffMyRights · 17/12/2019 22:37

Whoops, should say bells, obviously.
I dropped a letter unlike Karen White who added two letters.

HandsOffMyRights · 17/12/2019 22:36

Anyway, do you really, truly think a man would get a GRC just to get into a woman only space???

Yes. With balls on.

LangCleg · 17/12/2019 22:30

This is a disappointingly brief telling-off-of-the-day.

I thought quite feeble since there was a cool choice between getting stuck in on some meaty threads (you'll notice they mostly go undisturbed as facile is the best opposition we ever get) or sticking up for poor old Michael Mumsnet's disciplining of inappropriate period talk, which would at least have been a laugh.

Poor effort!

Qcng · 17/12/2019 22:25

How many women has convicted rapist “Karen” White been convicted of sexually assaulting in the female prison estate? Two?

White was accused of perpetrating four sexual assaults in prison, but confessed to two.

Considering this is a person who lies about being a woman in order to gain access to victims, and women are afraid of the repercussions on themselves after being sexually assaulted, I'd say four sex assaults is a low estimate.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/12/2019 22:25

But but but, don't you want to be nice, Bobbly? And kind? Doesn't it just break your heart to think that not being given access to your naked body for affirmation purposes might make someone sad?

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 17/12/2019 22:22

This is a disappointingly brief telling-off-of-the-day.

But you know, tomorrow is a new day for the regulation two minutes hate, so presumably the wide-eyed scolding will continue then.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/12/2019 22:21

It would be like me doing, well, my best friend's elderly Japanese mum thinks mixed sex hot springs are OK, so my teenage Scottish cousin should be fine with some random bloke joining her in the bath.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/12/2019 22:20

Referencing Norway is particularly odd given the striking differences in both population distribution and cultural attitudes towards mixed sex nudity.

SarahTancredi · 17/12/2019 22:18

Ultimately it hurts trans people too doesnt it?

All the " just getting on quietly with my life-ers" are fighting for services, appointments, and attitudes towards them brought on by the " hey mate we can go pee with the women now and they cant say shit-ers"

Ibloodylovewomen · 17/12/2019 22:17

Yaniving about lol!

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/12/2019 22:15

There are examples of safekeeping failures, but these are not the fault of individuals

While certainly I'd hold the prison service responsible for letting Karen White into a women's prison I think suggesting that the individual themselves, ie. Karen White, isn't responsible for sexually assaulting women is a. ridiculous. b. offensive, and c. possibly a bit more revealing of your mindset than you had intended.

Qcng · 17/12/2019 22:15

Lizzy There are examples of safekeeping failures, but these are not the fault of individuals, but the fault of the establishment

😂 Yeah, uh, no I'm pretty sure certain individuals know exactly what they are doing.
The establishment is following the very typical misogynistic path of not caring about women in the slightest.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 17/12/2019 22:09

please can we stop saying ‘ahead of the law’ when it is against the law, in breach of the law, unlawful, etc.

scotsheather · 17/12/2019 22:06

Anyway, do you really, truly think a man would get a GRC just to get into a woman only space?

Nah, it never happens does it? Thing is they never needed it anyway. Karen White, Dolatowski.

Kit19 · 17/12/2019 22:05

“Yaniving about” Grin

LizzyButterfly · 17/12/2019 22:03

@HorseWithNoTimeForCis I'm off to bed too

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