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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Don't worry women....a transwoman's sexuality is docile, patient, hesitant & fragile

109 replies

BoxOfBabyCheeses · 17/12/2019 12:40

medium.com/@cassiebrighter/what-do-we-do-about-women-with-a-penis-70e783fb952e?

I was scrolling through the cyclepath's twitter and came across this above link. I am genuinely dumbfounded that people actually spout this rubbish. An excerpt below:

^We talked about the symbology of the penis. Jimena and I immediately agreed that penis-owners have historically hurt vagina-owners in many ways. Some of these ways have specifically included the penis as a weapon, as an instrument of harm. Some of the women in the circle could be survivors of rape or sexual assault. So it is really important to start by openly acknowledging that history, and that symbology. And by directly addressing those concerns.
The event leader can explain that, while there is an obvious similarity between a trans woman's genitals and those of a man, this person's genitals have received years of female hormones. They respond differently, they carry a different energy. While a man's penis is an object of great pride, a trans woman's member is often a source of dysphoria and shame. A man's penis swaggers and struts, conquers and acquires, penetrates. A trans gal's genitals generally carry none of this energy. Speaking in generalities, a man's sexuality is urgent and assertive, and can be invasive. A trans gal's sexuality is docile, patient, hesitant, fragile. (Note: An acquaintance asked me to emphasize I’m speaking in generalities here. You may find men who are shy, docile and/or passive with their penis. You may find trans women who are comfortable using their genitals for penetration. As with anything, YMMV — but I’m speaking from having spoken with dozens upon dozens of trans women.)^

OP posts:
MyMajesty · 18/12/2019 10:44

Oh, come on.
These are especially fragile, delicate ladies who need special consideration. Naturally.

AwdBovril · 18/12/2019 10:38

If a trans gal’s sexuality is docile, patient, hesitant & fragile, is that not rather at odds with the belief that TWAW? As not all natal women’s sexuality are all (or even any) of those things. Seems rather odd to claim that a group is part of a larger group because of a, while acknowledging that fundamental difference b exists. OTOH...they just didn’t think that far. They never considered that natal women might not fit neatly into the box they want to keep us in. It’s too uncomfortable because it doesn’t fit the narrative.

DuMondeB · 18/12/2019 09:44

I post questions, rather than make statements, the aim for me is sunlight, not adversity.

For example, with your link I would post something like ‘Surely people don’t actually think like this? Everyone agrees that rape victims deserve to heal away from stranger’s penises, don’t they? Is this satire? It’s getting more and more difficult to tell!’

BoxOfBabyCheeses · 18/12/2019 08:20

I'm still so shocked by this, enough that I'm considering posting it to my FB. People need to see how farcical theses arguments are, and a positive side effect may be that anyone who calls me a bigot/terf/transphobe will be quickly removed from my friends list.

Is anyone else open about their GC beliefs on FB? It feels like a big step to take.

OP posts:
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 18/12/2019 07:58

"They should have framed the event in such a way that all present understand and agree with that inclusivity.”

The problem there, Jimena, is that people understanding that you plan to expose them to unwanted penis is not at all the same thing as them agreeing to it. Often quite the opposite, in fact.

Datun · 18/12/2019 07:44

Watching/listening to people talk in graphic detail about fetishes you don't share is always more awkward than arousing.

This. Especially when it's framed as 'what all women do'.

A mental 'backing away slowly' is unavoidable.

iguanadonna · 18/12/2019 07:11

The centering of the male self, yes, and also the conviction that women are understanding things wrongly and need to be told. The event leader can explain...

Cookieflavoredbiscuit · 18/12/2019 06:56

From the article, about deciding whether to include a bepenised transwoman in a gathering for women where there will be nudity:

"It’s up to the organizer, the event leader;" Jimena said. "They should have framed the event in such a way that all present understand and agree with that inclusivity.”

So, yet again, “inclusivity” specifically means excluding women who don’t want to deal with seeing a penis in what is supposedly an event for women.

Humpty-Dumptyism. (My favorite newly learned expression)

At least Jimena understands that women should be warned ahead of time to avoid a horrible situation, but I have to suspect the only people she’s concerned with sparing are the havers of oh-so-shy penises on their quest for validation.

Siameasy · 18/12/2019 05:52

No thank you

DonutMan · 18/12/2019 02:27

I'd rather see 'AngryVagina'. 😆

DuMondeB · 18/12/2019 02:08

Please, Please, could someone please change their Mumsnet username to ‘DocilePenis’?

DonutMan · 18/12/2019 01:57

Sounds a bit Hmm to me, but it's highly likely that greatly reducing one's testosterone is very similar to getting a dog neutered and thus increases docility.

InionEile · 18/12/2019 01:03

‘Trans gals’ - tee hee hee!! Giggle! Such simpering dainty gals with their ‘docile’ genitals. Hmm

And yy to AnyOldPrion: comparing sex-segregated spaces to Jim Crow laws is just beyond offensive. Black people and white people were segregated because of hateful and erroneous ideas about skin color. Women were / are segregated from men due to incontrovertible evidence that, when given a chance, some men choose to harm women. ‘Not all men’ but enough where women rightfully feel safer in their own space. Men are the oppressors in this scenario, based on real, verifiable data on crime not some fervid imaginings of mean women who won’t let men into their spaces because they want to keep men down. So ridiculous.

And again it’s all about ‘trans gals’ accessing female spaces. These people never ever write about how trans men aren’t accepted as peers or Catholic priests. It’s always about male-bodied people accessing women’s bathrooms and changing rooms like they’re fighting the good fight, heroes on a par with Martin Luther King. It’s so bloody ridiculous and they can’t even see how ridiculous they are.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 18/12/2019 00:32

I'M SO OVER THIS SHITE!

Sex is immutable.

I understand that is very challenging for people with a gender dysphoria, but it's all sorts of titillation for the rest of the feckers pushing their way under the trans umbrella.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 18/12/2019 00:21

trans gal
always girls huh that’s not creepy at all Hmm

MyMajesty · 18/12/2019 00:15

Good step in the right direction,

It isn't.
It's them taking a different approach to try to get exactly the same things they've wanted all along.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 18/12/2019 00:10

Nope, sorry, I'm going to continue identifying as a person who's never heard Jess talking about Jess's special outie "vagina".

anxioussue · 18/12/2019 00:05

What a load of bollocks

WomanBornNotWorn · 17/12/2019 23:43

Symbollocks more like

ARoombaOfOnesOwn · 17/12/2019 23:39

The only people who think of women’s genitals are passive are people who only think of a vulva as a sheath for a penis.

Urgh this has reminded me of Prince Andrew and his “sex is a positive action for a man”.

Sheeshelection · 17/12/2019 23:27

This has reminded me (unfortunately) of this gem of a poetic performance from J*s Brdy (they of the getting their dick out at their NUS office. taking photos and masturbating over images of school boys allegedly - any news on the NUS investigation by the way???) They talk about what their vagina would say if it could talk and manage to win themselves a spot on a stage at Manchester University where women are doing a vagina monologue type of thing. Obviously put out that the vagina monologues did not include their penis, J*s wrote their own ode to their feminine genitalia. Some great contributions in the comments section. I imagine they would describe their penis as docile as they talk about their vagina as wearing a dress and gritting its teeth at certain points.

CatalogueUniverse · 17/12/2019 22:23

Also, is there anything more male than assigning an entire personality complete with emotions and independent behavior to your penis?*

That is a very good point. I’m trying to think of women attributing independent behaviour to their vulvas. I can think of complaints about unexpected period arrival. Discussion of what is normal physical appearance/behaviour. Discussion of healing post birth.

It is patriarchal thinking in action to view female sexuality/genitals as being docile/passive/patient/fragile. Vulvas are incredible, self cleaning, self lubricating to prevent damage. Expands and has the muscle capacity to push out a baby. Men are the ones who push shame on women for natural lubrication, periods, physical appearance of genitals. Women’s bodies are capable of multiple orgasms. The fear of women’s voracious sexuality was utilised in witch hunts.

PASSIVE?! The only people who think of women’s genitals are passive are people who only think of a vulva as a sheath for a penis.

bd67th · 17/12/2019 21:54

The Jim Crow comparison is bullshit. Melanin does not confer the ability to rape, black women are women because they were born with vulvas.

A penis confers the ability to rape. Having a penis makes you a rape risk, by definition. We segregate spaces by genitals for women's safety from rape.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/12/2019 21:48

If it's a girldick symbol does it have a pink bow tied around it?

ThePurported · 17/12/2019 21:43

The first time this was linked to on MN a penis signal was projected into the sky which brought us a visit from the author.

I think the Peenmobile just pulled up round the corner.