Safe Schools Alliance support Legal action against Oxfordshire Schools Trans Guidance

Dug a little bit. Heartening to see that people are beginning to question doctrine.

Children are very sensitive to injustice in my opinion - they see it.

Absolutely this.

So pleased to see that a hole being dug is already half way there - & there are some lovely comments.
That toolkit clearly demonstrates how children are mere tools for adults to use in their determination to force society to change and remove all safeguards. It's shows no appreciation of the complexities of managing and supporting all types of children in a school community.

Have contributed.

Thank you for your courage x

Spadeful dug. Fantastic work.

My dd1 is 13. We aren't in the UK, but she'd feel exactly as Miss B does. I don't want to imagine the courage it must take B to speak out like this. My dd is a feisty lass, & I reckon she'd be up for it. But I know she'd also be scared.

Courage calls to courage .

I also think that if we want to normalise boys in dresses with long hair (which is obviously fine and great) then treating the boy who wishes to dress that way in a manifestly unfair way, better than all the other children is highly unlikely to achieve this. Children are very sensitive to injustice in my opinion - they see it. Suggesting that trans children go in the changing rooms and toilets of the opposite sex is enforcing strict gender boxes, and doesn't really allow non-binary trans children to explore a non-binary identity (it's saying you have to be X or Y) and WILL cause resentment from the other children, whether it's expressed formally or not (if they're too scared to speak up).

Telling people to ignore the biological reality of sex is like telling short-sighted people like me that they can simply identify out of being short-sighted. I can just take my glasses off and 'pass' - well, except for the bumping into things and not being able to actually see anything of course - which - guess what - would be dangerous for me AND OTHER PEOPLE!. It wouldn't be kind to do that to me and it's not kind to do that to a child.

This is so important.

Overturning the guidance would mean discrediting the group or body who provided the initial advice. My guess it is a group or body that has earned a good living advising many parts of the public sector. It might cause others to seek independent advice on their own policies.

Ineedacupoftea I was about to ask the same. I didn’t read the thread but am mystified, did it take a strange turn?

Why was the other thread removed? Parents concerned about dangers to safeguarding in a 'toolkit' which has not been through an equality impact assessment? What possible reason could there have been to have removed that thread but not this?

This guidance is far more likely to make trans kids isolated and excluded...It's almost as if the people writing it have only encountered children in theory and not in real life at all.

^^this. And then the idea that they are marginalised and vulnerable and bullied, takes even more hold.

I'm so glad this is getting the exposure it so urgently needs. This starts in schools and it's where scrutiny of the adults involved needs to be the most forensic.

You only have to look at the twitter transactivist reaction to Rachel Rooney's book to realise just how much everyone is fully aware of the importance of what is taught in schools.

A Twitter user with the name @Selenethoa, who describes themself as “femme-ish non-binary”, uploaded a picture of the book with the message: “If you wouldn’t let your kids read terrorist propaganda, don’t let them read this.” The post has been retweeted thousands of times.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rachel-rooneys-childrens-book-my-body-is-me-labelled-anti-trans-extremism-szrr6gsxr?shareToken=b4e7de24dabf0f975f89feeb4d6432df&wgu=270525_54264_15764788816455_2147442ec6&wgexpiry=1584254881&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

The other thread on this on AIBU has been removed, so will bump this one.

Yes, and that there isn't really any interest in caring for children, not even the trans kids. Why do they think it would be good for trans kids to be put in a position which alienates pretty much all their peers?

Exactly. You can't change basic human nature, and if girls feel that they are being forced to share with a troubled boy it is likely to breed resentment against that boy, making him even isolated and excluded. I can imagine the problem would only be escalated by forcing the matter. Girls aren't pushovers; they will object.

Far kinder and more sensible for his parents and teachers to talk to him, persuade him to use a third space, which hopefully the school would provide.

Hoping this will reach the half way point by tomorrow. It's such an important stand - like Maya's test case.

I have so much admiration and respect for the mother, the teacher. And a 13 year old girl - what guts and determination must she have to do this? I hope one day somebody like this leads a party I can vote for.

What is so obvious about this so called "guidance" particularly to schools, is that there is a lot of money behind this.

Yes, and that there isn't really any interest in caring for children, not even the trans kids. Why do they think it would be good for trans kids to be put in a position which alienates pretty much all their peers? It's so obviously not going to make their lives better. Third spaces would be much more likely to result in acceptance and kindness.

You can force kids to comply but they won't like it. The girls won't like being forced to share their toilets with boys, especially as they deal with menstruation (which is already stressful enough when you first start and in a school setting). We're a sexually dimorphic mammalian species, sex matters. We're genetically programmed to register which sex is which, no amount of coercion can undo that.

This guidance is far more likely to make trans kids isolated and excluded. Even as they're allowed in the opposite sex toilets, changing rooms and teams (against the girls wishes - even if they're bullied and coerced into silence). It's almost as if the people writing it have only encountered children in theory and not in real life at all.

What is so obvious about this so called "guidance" particularly to schools, is that there is a lot of money behind this.

As someone who was involved to an extent in the framing of the Equality Act, I can't say how happy it makes me to see that the writers of the legal letter properly understand the provisions of the Act in this area. So many inaccuracies and blatant untruths are cited on this, mostly based on outright lies by Stonewall and (at best) ignorance and a lack of rigour by others. The provisions are complex (law is) but they didn't end up the way they are by accident - they were hard fought for.

Payday next week. Digging implement at the ready.

This is the hill that I will die on. I get cross about some things and am very exercised by companies like M & S putting their female customers at risk via their mixed sex changing rooms, boated lobby groups lying about the law and women's sport. BUT allowing these groups to groom children in schools and to implement these awful guidelines gives me a permanent rage. As well as writing to my MP yet again, I have already dug a bit and will continue to do so.

Lang one day when I meet you in RL I will give you chapter and verse on the whole entire shit show of the apparent "review" they carried out. They were evasive, dismissive, lacked transparency. And never addressed a single concern apart to say we were wrong. Hearing top barrister say "you were right" was quite a moment. This has been a year in the making.

I am honestly just sitting here in disbelief. The foundational premises of safeguarding and the statutory duties ignored. It's terrifying.

It's a dangerous and toxic combination of ideology, mangling the law, and lobby group demands. Even a swift reading throws up all sorts of contradictions and completely unworkable demands. These guidelines seriously propose that all girls who refuse to be forced to undress in front of boys must be told to change elsewhere. Completely unworkable in a school - for health and safety reasons, lack of supervision, the additional time that would impact on PE lesson time etc. It only works if girls are forced to undress in front of boys - the perfect example of coercive control in action.

I believe so as it's public sector?