Excellent article on non-binary by Jonathan Best

Thomasin explains how the impact of online ideology and awareness of sexualisation of women and girls affected her when she started to if as non binary:

twitter.com/tjdetrans/status/1208184847883067394?s=21

I've just started this thread, her story must be heard.

The view that breasts are appendages communicating a gender stereotype is so damaging.

As someone who has breastfed for 5 years and so has learnt so much about it, plus read the "politics of breastfeeding" I now find it almost impossible to comprehend. Yet when I was in my twenties I know I thought about not breastfeeding because I thought it would make them "saggy." (Which I now know is bollocks.)

Education around breasts is poor given over 50 percent of the population will/have them - and yet we are all very aware of mastectomies for both cancer and now trans, and breast ironing etc. The porn industry also is culpable.

Very important message from an older detransitioner www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3770885-very-important-message-from-an-older-detransitioner

I sincerely hope Lachlan does not regret removing their breasts as they mature and evolve. And if they do I hope they use their platform to argue against minors having major surgery.

I’ve been trying to articulate exactly this for ages. Thank you.

And yes the boodleoops article is fantastic.

I didn't know that about Lou Reed!

Thank you for your reply @JonnyBest and I'm sorry for the delay in replying.

It took a wee while for me to process the full ins and outs of what non binary actually meant. It feels like it's evolved from gender non conformity into an ideology of it's own, and finally to physical harm.

And actually something I read this weekend about nb and physically "tucking" (penis etc) being harmful means it could affect males, but I don't believe it's as common and I think that's more to do with drag.

This particular article for me is horrifying. The actress is quite large in the us and on various Netflix things. The description of self harm as self care and confusion around stereotypes etc. Lachlan looks prepubescent which some people have pointed out to me is concerning given issues around csa. These photos are on Instagram.

www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2019/05/234065/lachlan-watson-top-surgery-scar-interview

Fallingirl that boodleoops piece is fantastic. I remember reading it at the time and admiring the clarity and logic of her argument. The future is genderfree!

Rebecca Reilley-Cooper wrote about this a couple of years ago.

aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

Good stuff.

BTW who thinks it's a good idea to let an 11/ 12 year old have liposuction?

I do wonder about where this stuff comes from, and how mixed up some young people when it comes to body image and what is increasingly legitimised as 'normal'.

Echo - but how do you define feeling like a sex? I don’t feel female I just am, and I’ve never came across anyone who has any idea what feeling like either sex is. So if we can’t feel like a sex how can we feel like neither sex?

Feeling disconnected from our sexed bodies is possible - and very common imho, especially for women, but that’s not the same as not feeling like either sex.

I'm confused now having trying to understand what 'non-binary' actually means.
Does it mean you don't behave in ways that are considered characteristically 'female' or 'male', but if so, who has decided which characteristics are 'male' or 'female' ? Who decides how many of them you have to conform with to be considered non-binary?

About 20 years ago I started meeting some people who didn't seem to identify with either gender and thought it was pretty cool.

But I am beginning to get a little cynical about it. I agree that it seems to be a bit solipsistic - 'Look at me I am a special butterfly to whom rules of gender don't apply!' without having to change how you look or take any hormones and while it's all very nice for you, it's not really doing anything for anyone else. Far better to say 'I am a man/woman who doesn't feel it necessary to stick to arbitrary gender expectations' would do more good. Because I doubt most of this new generation of enbys really feel a profound disjunct from their bodies (I believe there is probably a small minority who profoundly feel of neither sex) - they just dont like gender stereotypes and there's a cool new label for it with which they can immediately confer special status on them. So I am sceptical, especially of younger teenagers going in for that.

I have a fairly 'gender non-conforming' DD (given that having short hair in girls is apparently now so shockingly rare that it's a bit of an abberation), who is quite happily identified as female and knows that it is fine and good to be female and not fit with stereotypes

All parties are institutionally misogynistic these days. No one needs to hold the same views on every subject.

Neuro - 60s actually. Lou Reed up on stage in skirts and make up singing songs about gay sex despite the reality that his parents forced him to have shock treatments for being bisexual and dressing in women’s clothes, and the press treating him like a freak show and a pervert for the same thing. He was really brave, Sam Smith is a muppet, it isn’t new or brave for any man to do this these days, in fact in the music industry it’s practically standard. If he wanted to stand out he’d be proud of being a bloke who likes make up and heels, as it is he is just conforming to the trend for his age group. No different to emo kids, no more special or unique than anyone else. (And being unique isn’t a replacement for actual talent and hard work, despite the social media generation assuming it is).

Sorry for the derail, it's not really relevant to the topic. Like I say, I shouldn't have tried to post anything today, things are too raw.

Maybe I shouldn't have tried to read this today but I just saw when I looked for the discussion on Twitter that he has voted for the Brexit Party in the Euro elections and now my eyes are full of tears that someone I respected so much has voted for an institutionally misogynistic and homophobic party, cos some reasons. What a mess everything is right now.

Thanks Jonny for a brilliant article and analysis. I so appreciate how you are appealing to gay men to support women and against extreme trans ideology.

Hi NeurotrashWarrior
Thanks for tagging me .r.e your thoughts - really appreciate it. I totally take your powerful point r.e. physical damage to women, compared to superficial male transformations. I hadn't really considered that difference - but I take it on board.
Thanks for reaching out - it's not bad form at all! It's really nice of you.
Best,
Jonny

Oops!

@JonnyBest

I don’t think your tag should have the h in it, Neuro (in case you think he’s ignoring)

Thanks and agree with all of your above posts!

I'm afraid I also see a level of narcissism, look at me, with this 'coming out' as non binary. That it's stunning and brave etc.

They did it in the 80's and 90's without an announcement. Coming out as hiv positive was harder.

Just to add that amid all that 'confusion' Sam knows that Sam is gay, that Sam is same sex attracted.
Would he be attracted to a transman if gender, not sex, matters?

Good point. And great post.

Thanks for the tag handle. Is it bad form?!

Sorry for the tag @JohnnyBest but some good points here.

3 ns on Twitter, two on here.

Jonnny with three Ns.

I'd like to Tag Johnny here but not sure of his handle

He's JonnyBest on MN.

Good piece - of course this isn't the first time similar has been said re genderism only working by keeping everyone in their boxes (there was another great piece a couple of years or so on that theme, can't remember now who by) but it's excellent to have a bloke saying it clearly too.