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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

When you stand for nothing

34 replies

BovaryX · 07/12/2019 12:15

TimeLady has posted an excellent article by Janice Turner in The Times which analyzes the extensive influence wielded by a secretive lobby group who are unknown to most of the public. This lobby has embedded itself into influential institutions and its radical policies are promoted by politicians. It deliberately avoids media scrutiny or public debate. The emphasis on secrecy is an acknowledgment that if its agenda was widely known, there would be legitimate, valid resistance. Key pieces of its agenda are on the manifesto of the Lib Dems. John McDonnell yesterday also confirmed Labour’s commitment to self ID. Why are politicians in two major parties signing up to the demands of a lobby group whose aims are so unpopular with the public, secrecy is their modus operandi? Why are politicians who want to run the country espousing an ideology whose proponents are unable to coherently defend it when questioned? And have instead tried to criminalize any debate? Part of the answer is fear of a Twitter mob descending wielding fictional claims of ‘hate speech’ as a bludgeon. But the other answer? A total absence of principles. This lobby’s influence is an existential threat to freedom of speech, freedom of thought and democracy. Enlightenment values. The politicians pandering to this?

When you stand for nothing, you fall for anything

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Melioration · 10/12/2019 08:08

Thank you. Some really interesting links here.

BovaryX · 09/12/2019 06:24

Ah so that's why Ireland has fine further down the genderism path than Britain. Nothing to do with popular opinion. Quite the opposite, it seems
NotTerf
That’s exactly right. It’s the opposite of a grassroots movement. Like the suffragettes. Avoiding public debate and media scrutiny are explicit tactics because if its radical aims were common knowledge, there would be widespread resistance. How is that democratic?

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ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas · 08/12/2019 15:02

Sorry for the sun link (it came up on my news feed).

This is why women still need to fight for their own spaces:

Girl, 16, 'raped in school hallway for 30 minutes & her screams were ignored'
Read in The Sun: apple.news/AXRlkIf0zS46KqvFc_HnN4A

BovaryX · 08/12/2019 11:24

This is what grassroots women's groups are up against. No wonder that it's so bloody hard.

Well, well well. So that’s who is involved? Open Society? A lobby group who have access to the upper echelons of power but shun media scrutiny and public debate? I wonder what Professor Karl Popper would have said. The Open Society and its enemies There are certainly plenty of the latter with a stranglehold on the apparatus of the state.

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Floisme · 08/12/2019 10:55

This is such an interesting thread, thank you Bovary and Time.

If Stonewall - a publicly funded organisation - is allowed to be secretive as to who their advisers are, then that is astonishing.

Needmoresleep · 08/12/2019 10:50

Worth noting that Stonewall do not publish the names of all the members of its Trans Advisory Group. Some choose to remain anonymous.
www.stonewall.org.uk/trans-advisory-group

They were selected, apparently, after a lengthy, albeit undefined, recruitment process, one which until recently did not see problems with Aimee Challenor, who remained part of the group long after she was essentially forced to resign from the Greens. ( She is no longer on the website at least. No knowing whether she is one of the anonymous members.)

So in short we don't know who advises Stonewall on Trans issues and we don't know how they are recruited. Presumably any of the people mentioned above could be part of the group. Stonewall then advice the Government, police, schools and, and, and.

Stonewall is very much the public face of trans lobbying yet we don't know who lobbies them, with a general assumption being that both Ruth Hunt (former CE) and Jan Gooding (Chair of Trustees - or at least she was. Stonewall just have her listed as Trustee) were stooges.

TimeLady · 08/12/2019 10:07

Here is the full Open Society publication

www.opensocietyfoundations.org/publications/license-be-yourself

This report is a resource for activists working on human rights issues for trans people, local communities examining best laws and policies, and policymakers seeking to uphold the rights of trans people.

This is what grassroots women's groups are up against. No wonder that it's so bloody hard.

TimeLady · 08/12/2019 10:02

The Introduction to the pdf linked above says

In 2014, the Open Society Foundations produced License to be Yourself, a report on progressive gender recognition laws and policies for trans people, and the activist strategies behind them.

This brief is one of four complementary resources for activists. Each brief
summarizes key arguments made by those opposing access to legal gender
recognition. This resource focuses on minimum age restrictions that deny trans children and youth the right to legal gender recognition. It provides arguments that can be used by those advocating for rights-based gender recognition laws and policies.

This brief also introduces issues relevant to children and young people with
intersex variations. It recognizes that children with intersex variations often face a complex series of interactions with the medical system in order to obtain an initial sex classification.

Melioration · 08/12/2019 10:00

Don’t forget any —astroturf— movement needs grassroots. Action for Trans Health and Jess Bradley who were called to contribute to Maria Miller’s enquiry.

TimeLady · 08/12/2019 09:56

Follow the money indeed.

This is a "A LEGAL GENDER RECOGNITION ISSUE BRIEF" produced by the Open Society, titled "Licence to be yourself: trans children and youth"

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.opensocietyfoundations.org/uploads/a958c063-2b80-4173-b5b4-3811eab51919/lgr_trans-children-youth-20151120.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj6rrSf4aXmAhXK4IUKHTpfD6YQFjACegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw0PCb_WoVPEnkFaMJXID6tj" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.opensocietyfoundations.org/uploads/a958c063-2b80-4173-b5b4-3811eab51919/lgr_trans-children-youth-20151120.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj6rrSf4aXmAhXK4IUKHTpfD6YQFjACegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw0PCb_WoVPEnkFaMJXID6tj

And who funds the Open Society? International meddler in chief, George Soros.

Now you can begin to see why politicians, corporates and charities have been led up this particular garden path. All this 'evidence' presented from sources which they don't have the confidence or resources to criticise.

NotTerfNorCis · 08/12/2019 09:43

*...gone further.

NotTerfNorCis · 08/12/2019 09:42

In Ireland, activists have directly lobbied individual politicians and tried to keep press coverage to a minimum in order to avoid this issue.’

Ah so that's why Ireland has fine further down the genderism path than Britain. Nothing to do with popular opinion. Quite the opposite, it seems.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2019 09:29

4thwavenow.com/tag/tawani-foundation/ 4thWaveNow article by Michael Biggs on following the money.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2019 09:28

Yup. Jennifer Pritzker, for example. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Pritzker

TimeLady · 08/12/2019 09:27

Background info on Whittle, which perhaps explains why they were chosen as the select committee's special advisor.

www.boell.de/en/2016/07/20/yogyakarta-principles-provide-guidance-and-are-constant-reference-point

Unfortunately, not an unbiased one.

ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas · 08/12/2019 09:27

Interesting... Coverage is getting louder and clearer!

Legal action launched in row between National Theatre and lesbian group
Legal action is being launched in a dispute between the National Theatre and a group of lesbian claimants.

Read in The Telegraph: apple.news/AKeE8niMPS5itILJINxr8oA

ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas · 08/12/2019 09:19

The Times reported yesterday donations to the LinDems from company who produces puberty blockers: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/puberty-blocker-drug-firm-donated-cash-to-lib-dems-cf3x77nh3

Follow the money. Always.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2019 09:14

Yes, I agree. Sad Angry

BovaryX · 08/12/2019 09:11

have started to wonder why children and teenagers are being pushed down a medical path, while middle-aged males who choose to transition often have very little medical treatment and middle-aged females who choose to transition are vanishingly rare

GaspOde,
The NHS reference was about the 2004 GRA act. The 3200 per cent increase in young girls presenting for transition is a reflection of the environment which the GRA has created. You are absolutely correct about the bizarre demographic comprising young girls and middle aged men. It raises all kinds of issues which should be open for discussion and analysis. As to common sense? One of the tactics of this lobby group is to criminalize discussion. They believe if you control the language, you can bend reality to your fantasy. This is a fight for the right to say two plus two equals four.

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2019 09:03

What's happened to common sense and critical thinking in politicians in the last few years? The obvious counter to the assertion that the NHS can't afford all the GRC work is to say yes, but what about the cost to the NHS of the hormones, surgery and follow up work? Where's the evidence that people who've had that amount of medical intervention can live healthy lives with no medical treatment in the longer term?

Also, stats on how frequent transition is, at what age, how much medical treatment each group has etc etc should have been compiled and in the process the MPs might perhaps have started to wonder why children and teenagers are being pushed down a medical path, while middle-aged males who choose to transition often have very little medical treatment and middle-aged females who choose to transition are vanishingly rare.

BovaryX · 08/12/2019 08:50

I just don't get it

TimeLady’s link is really helpful in explaining the ideology. But the explanation as to how is because of the tactics used to advance the agenda. One example, apparently the members of the GRA committee were unhappy about passing this without requiring medical certification. The argument used to swerve this was prohibitive cost to NHS. The identical argument has been deployed in the Irish case posted today

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2019 08:43

I read about Stephen Whittle's background once - here, I think. www.theguardian.com/society/2007/apr/17/socialcare.highereducationprofile

[Whittle's father] was a representative of the old Britain, the old Manchester. "He was very much of the view that girls were girls and women were women," says Whittle. "I remember being on a holiday when I was about 13 and he hit my mother because she came out of the caravan wearing slacks and refused to change back into a dress."

By that time, the family were beginning to prosper, moving to middle-class Withington from the council estate of Wythenshawe. Whittle Sr, having fallen into a vat of dye at a chemical depot, was offered the choice of compensation or a desk job. He took the desk job and, despite being barely literate, discovered a hidden talent for technical drawing. Eventually he became manager of the plant, while his wife became a medical secretary at the Christie hospital. The middle of five children, Whittle envied his brothers ...

This is all so reminiscent of all the articles published in recent years about very young children struggling with gender dysphoria. Their socially conservative families/communities expect them to comply with gender stereotypes that the children aren't comfortable with. The children are told/shown that this means there is something badly wrong with them and life becomes very tough. Child tries to find a way through this and concludes if they had been born the opposite sex all would be well because that set of stereotypes would be much easier to live with and there would be opportunities that child's own sex doesn't seem to get. Sad

How did we move to a position where people who feel like this are told that they are right and need lifelong hormone treatment and extensive surgery, rather than therapy and support to campaign to end gender stereotyping? I just don't get it.

BovaryX · 08/12/2019 08:25

Chiochan,
I agree. It really is sinister. Target youth groups. Bypass the media. Avoid public debate. Piggyback radical policies onto uncontroversial legislation. And try to criminalize discussion or dissent. It’s an existential threat to democracy freedom and much of this assault is linguistic. TimeLady’s excellent link is a fascinating read on the background of this ideology

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Chiochan · 08/12/2019 08:18

That Spectator piece is a sinister revelation. I dont think anyone can read that and not think peodophillia is a large motivatior behind all this.

BovaryX · 08/12/2019 08:04

TimeLady, thank you for that link, really appreciate it. I have just read the document and it’s most illuminating. One of the striking things about it is the deliberate, calculated intent to obliterate the unambiguous definition of biological sex. Interesting that it cites prohibitive cost to NHS as reason to abandon medical documentation as criteria. That same rationale is being cited in The Times article posted this morning. The playlist is explicit.

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