Janice Turner thanks the LibDems

Now, there is a political movement infiltrating multiple political parties that actually, genuinely, literally, wants to abolish me and all women as a nameable political category with policy needs. I can't vote for it. I just can't. I won't

Lang, you know what I find so shocking? This is absolutely nothing whatsoever like a grass roots movement. It is nothing like a social change movement. Like the suffragettes. It is a deliberately secretive lobby which had immediate access to the people in the upper echelons of power. Civil servants, politicians, charities, state sector, private sector. And all of it done with zero media or public scrutiny. It’s unbelievable

but it is coming close to a straight choice between "five years of the poor being shafted versus a fundamental shift in our political process away from freedom of speech and democracy which may last a lifetime or more."

This. I was saying elsewhere earlier that I have never cast a vote intended to benefit me. Never. Not even once. My vote has always gone in solidarity with others whose policy needs are greater than mine.

Now, there is a political movement infiltrating multiple political parties that actually, genuinely, literally, wants to abolish me and all women as a nameable political category with policy needs. I can't vote for it. I just can't. I won't.

And that goes for both the Lib Dems and their you definitely don't exist, you're already abolished and Labour with their oh come on love, we're only going to abolish you a little bit.

No. I won't. I can't be made to. You can't appeal to my conscience. You can't make me put others first. I exist. A vote should be a positive thing and I will not cast another vote (beyond a ballot spoiling) until there is a political party ready to mount a full-throated defence of my existence within an important political category, and the rights it confers.

End of.

“FFS” 😂

University humanities department said: “This speaker is part of the anti-trans platform. Free speech is one thing, but trans rights are human rights and we shouldn’t be debating human rights."

Zanahoria, this tells you everything you need to know about this academic’s contempt for freedom of speech....

"Tracey Loughran, a historian and dean in the Essex University humanities department said: “This speaker is part of the anti-trans platform. Free speech is one thing, but trans rights are human rights and we shouldn’t be debating human rights.""

This gave me the rage (the biological, peri-menopausal, kind). First, this oft- trotted out statement suggests that those who want to debate trans issues in any way are denying trans people are humans with rights. Second, it wholly ignores women's rights. I wish we didn't need to discuss those and that in 2019 they were taken as read, but because of the TRA agenda apparently we do need to fight to keep them.

The argument seems to be that if it's only a tiny number of women and girls that get harmed as a result of self ID, that that's ok.

How many transwomen would be harmed by the current GRA not being amended in the way the Lib Dems propose? Would that harm be as serious as sexual assault?

The reality is that a man not getting his own way and his feelings being hurt is of much greater significance than a woman being sexually assaulted.

I know she was sacked from her ministerial role but she used to be close to Johnson, and has a habit of bouncing back. A bit like Priti Patel.

Yes, these people are yo-yos.

A lot of Tories are as fetid on this issue as Swinson and Dawn Butler.

Yeah, and another curious thing is what has been going on at the Equalities Office since 2010. Many Conservatives, including Theresa May and Dominic Raab, wanted to decimate it back when it was about women's equality and they thought the office had become too bloated. I think that is one reason why the genderists have managed to capture Whitehall.
The GEO has moved umpteen times (where is it now - under Cabinet Office?) and the portfolio has been passed around various ministries. And now it seems to have forgotten that sex is one of the protected characteristics

I wish I could vote for Janice Turner.

And as much as I admire Jean Hatchet, we have to be careful. Some of that stuff is definitely conspiracy theory territory and risks undoing a lot of good work.

Thank you Janice!
Superb article.

zanahoria: uh why shouldn't we debating human rights? Its an important issue, we have to argue out exactly what rights people have and what they do not have. I honestly do not know of any other group camaigning for what they perceive to be their human rights who would not be confident enough to explain precisely why their rights are being denied. Anyone who had a case should surely be gald of the publicity?

Absolutely spot on. Take abortion rights for example. Feminists typically take the anti-abortion argument of "but it's a human life you're ending" seriously, and argue against it - either by arguing that life doesn't begin at conception, or by arguing that it's a case of competing rights between "right to life" for the foetus and "right to bodily autonomy" for the mother. (See, for example, the classic essay by Janice Radcliffe Richards).

What they don't do is argue for "no debate" or no platforming. (They may argue for restrictions on where people can debate - parliament square, universities, columns in the press, twitter, TV, radio - all okay, screaming in the faces of women as they attempt to attend an abortion clinic - not okay.)

I hope other journalists who have now woken up won't lose their interest when the election is over. The whole thing is so undemocratic and has huge implications on a range of issues from young people's health to free speech

I absolutely agree. This lobby and its cheerleaders are an existential threat to freedom of speech, freedom of thought, democracy, women’s rights and parents’ ability to protect children against being unnecessarily pathologised.

I am in awe of Janice's ability to package all that information in her column, she is such a brilliant writer.
And she has been shining a light on this for a long time. I hope other journalists who have now woken up won't lose their interest when the election is over. The whole thing is so undemocratic and has huge implications on a range of issues from young people's health to free speech.

A lot of Tories are as fetid on this issue as Swinson and Dawn Butler.

Remember Penny Mordaunt? She's on course to be re-elected in Portsmouth North

I know she was sacked from her ministerial role but she used to be close to Johnson, and has a habit of bouncing back. A bit like Priti Patel.

we had a lib dem canvasser on the door step yesterday. I (politely) sent him off with a flea in his ear. He did not know what to say about the self ID issue.

if you're going to major on it, why not provide the foot soldiers with some guidance on how to deal with the WTFs they're inevitably going to come across on the doorstep Jo?

You see it all the time on this board : they know the "I can't vote Tory..." scenario means those votes are non-Conservative ones, whether cast in despair or ballots spoilt. That's all that matters. Job done, thank you very much.

TimeLady, I think this is what they calculate. John McDonnell is an old school socialist. I don’t believe for a single second that he actually believes the biological impossibilities asserted by these lobbyists. But he demonstrated yesterday that he is quite prepared to chuck feminists under the bus because he is confident it won’t damage Labour. The arrogance is incredible

I think that’s it Bovary, they’re so certain that women will vote for them anyway that it doesn’t matter plus they’re certain they are on the ‘right’ side. for the first time ever I will spoil my ballot (I live in a rock solid Tory seat so it won’t affect anything) but I cannot bring myself to vote for a party that is willing to throw women under the bus AND expect women to cheer them while they do it

do you know what? I like our local tory boy mp. he;s rock solid on GC issues and has a good understanding of the 'trans kids' stuff. he's also very civilised on women's prisons

I fucking hate Boris Johnson, but that's not who I'm voting for. so maybe I will put a cross in that 'conservative' box next week for the first time ever in my life

there just isn't a credible alternative and I'm sick of spoiling my ballot

This is really interesting and odd wording in the the Times

'Karen White, a convicted rapist and paedophile who was born a man but used a transgender persona to attack female prisoners in a women’s prison.'

1. Karen White said they were trans so they were trans. What is this 'trans persona' idea??? Not heard that one before.
2. Karen White was able to abuse because the prison system said oh this person says their a woman and so even though they're a convicted rapist we'll put them in with the women. The mechanism is invisiblised. It's as if she hoodwinked them somehow when that's not the case. Prison system knew who they were and had a think and locked them in with women.

Tracey Loughran, a historian and dean in the Essex University humanities department said: “This speaker is part of the anti-trans platform. Free speech is one thing, but trans rights are human rights and we shouldn’t be debating human rights."

uh why shouldn't we debating human rights? Its an important issue, we have to argue out exactly what rights people have and what they do not have. I honestly do not know of any other group camaigning for what they perceive to be their human rights who would not be confident enough to explain precisely why their rights are being denied. Anyone who had a case should surely be gald of the publicity?

Quite simply, people who do not believe in debating human rights do not believe in human rights. Free debate is human right.

You see it all the time on this board : they know the "I can't vote Tory..." scenario means those votes are non-Conservative ones, whether cast in despair or ballots spoilt.

I think they might be in for a nasty surprise come next Friday - I reckon for every disillusioned Labour/Lib Dem voter saying this on social media, there's one who in the privacy of the ballot box might well think "sod it" and vote Tory.

(I know I'm damn close myself, because I think free speech and not being shat on by authoritarians who think they can school you in right-think is massively important to me politically - I am holding off, just, due to the fact that I fear the Tories will shaft the poor and vulnerable even more badly than they have managed to do so far... but it is coming close to a straight choice between "five years of the poor being shafted versus a fundamental shift in our political process away from freedom of speech and democracy which may last a lifetime or more.")

The argument seems to be that if it's only a tiny number of women and girls that get harmed as a result of self ID, that that's ok.

How does she know it’s a tiny number ?

Has she got magic powers ?