Compulsory pronoun introduction, secondary school

Is your post satirical, alittleprivacy? Or straight up?

Honestly? A bit of both. I know a few people in real life who take any opportunity to let you know their preferred pronouns. All are very clear and obvious men and women who "choose" the pronouns that match their clear and obvious biological sex. Their absolute and only reason to let you know their pronouns is to show their supreme wokeness like a badge of pride, because there is absolutely no fucking doubt whatsoever. They are the same people who bang on about the awfulness of 'white saviours,' 'white feminism,' and 'cultural appropriation.' And yet the loud show of these obvious women letting you know they 'identify' as she/her and obvious men letting you know they 'identify' as 'he/him' really is the same fucking thing they are so critical of in their other areas of twitter activism.

So yeah, I do think it's these bored and boring people making a fucking show of themselves by attaching themselves to someone else's cause and trying to take over for their own gratification. I genuinely have enormous sympathy for people experiencing gender dysphoria. I worry greatly for teens forced to define themselves before they have managed to work through their issues. Especially in an age where just about everything we do ends up a matter of public record on social media. I worry about the teens who find themselves cornered into a path they wouldn't otherwise stay on and I worry for the people who are genuinely happier when transitioned because their identity as trans-people is being swamped by this toxicity as chancers, cheats and predators take massive advantage of the changing ideology being pushed by these 'cis-saviours.'

And while I have a range of other feelings about this very complex issue. Including a real anger about men and women being forced back into the boxes that my generation and the generations before me, fought to get the fuck out of. Voicing those arguments isn't going to get us anywhere other than written off as Terfs. But woke people are very worried that they may find themselves on the wrong side of their own woke policing. So play them at their own game. Let them see the horror of what they are doing in a way that makes them worry about facing the same criticism they have levelled at other 'lesser' activists.

Is your post satirical, alittleprivacy? Or straight up?

I think that your first plan of action is to contact "Bob Saull"..

Yeah, better call Saull.

"My pronouns are biological sex based, like the centuries of oppression of women"

Probably a bit much to expect of a school child but what will be going in my email signature if I am ever pushed to include pronouns in it.

This is what genderfree is for.

“I don’t have an internal gender identity so I am neither cis, trans or NB. My sex is female/male.”

When asked for my pronouns: “as per my sex”.

First off, it's potentially forcing students to out themselves before they may be ready to. This is massively problematic. Teenagers go through a lot of introspection as they come to terms with their changing bodies and growing sexual identity. Even straight, cis teenagers have a lot to deal with as their bodies and hormones change. They need space to deal with these changes and not to be forced into making any expression of who they are while they are still in such flux. Some teens may be 100% sure of their identity and happy to express themselves as such, and it's fine to give them that platform, but forcing others to 'out' themselves could be very, very damaging.

And that's before we get to the very problematic issue of cis people who are actually very comfortable with their sexual and gender identity, dashing in to appropriate someone else's struggle. It's patronising in the extreme. It's not being an 'ally' it's the gender equivalent of being a white saviour. Taking an issue they can't have any genuine full understanding of, and instead of standing back and listening, rushing in to make someone else's cause their own. A badge of their own wokeness, while utterly appropriating someone else's cause in a way that can ultimately be far, far, far more damaging (as outlined above). Proving their own need to pat themselves on the back for showcasing their supportiveness was actually more important to them than being genuinely supportive.

The whole preferred pronouns nonsense is so self-centred, operating under the assumption that: a. you’re so important that people will want to discuss you in your abscence, and b. anyone is going to remember which set of pronouns goes with which attention-seeking wanker.

^That!!!! In spades.

to mitigate agaisnt distress or doscomfort to males we are going to cause distress and discomfort to females nice

To mitigate any chance of upset or discomfort amongst participants, we therefore want to start using pronoun introductions as a matter of course.

Introduce me to a group of people and I’ll forget their names ten seconds after I’ve heard them. Start telling me what pronouns you’d prefer, in the event I’d feel the need to discuss you, in your abscence, (because face-to-face I’ll use “you”), and you’re on a hiding to nowhere.

The whole preferred pronouns nonsense is so self-centred, operating under the assumption that: a. you’re so important that people will want to discuss you in your abscence, and b. anyone is going to remember which set of pronouns goes with which attention-seeking wanker.

Seems sensible. You do a lot of referring to people in the 3rd person in debates and in my day - well before trans was a thing - people did misgender deliberately and by accident quite often. It was hilarious to my adolescent mind. But this way there would be no confusion or excuse.

Two of my friends called a boy "madam chairperson" several times. It wasn't malicious, it was just we were at an all girls school and it was a habit.

Midgebaby ^^ stereotype threat

T is a part of the LGB,so are they also asking students to state their sexuality?If not,why not?

Pronouns cannot function as correction fluid for those who are dissatisfied with reality.
This sort of mandatory obedience training, requires lying to affirm other people's beliefs. It is a violation of anti discrimination law in many countries. For example the UK EA2010.

Yes Fragglimg similar here as to why it feels wrong to make people do this

Someone else also had a good phrase ...people can identify into a marginalised group, but , as you recognise as a female , you can't identify out of the marginalised group

Fraggling pretty spot on imho but I think you don't go far enough
It has also been shown that reminding females of their sex has a detrimental,effect on their performance
So forcing women and girls to remember pronouns at the start is basically handicapping us

I'm also wholly unconvinced that young me now cutting my hair and saying my pronouns are they / them would have helped anything.

People still know you're female and treat you as such.

It focuses anger on individuals who do things like misgendering rather than society for regressive stereotyping etc.

This is great for people who aren't keen on women's rights etc. Divide and conquer.

I have a great idea.

Suggest that their next debate is on whether it is helpful to ask people to state their pronouns before debating.

That would be a pertinent and interesting debate.

Just put my finger on why this makes me uncomfortable.

I was a feminist before I knew the word because I always noticed and disliked how I was pigeonholed because I was female. How all the time I was seen as female first, not person, and people would make all sorts of assumptions about me. And not like it if they were wrong, quite often, too.

This continued through teens and so on into my working life. It turns out very few men see women as people first, before their sex, if you see what I mean.

All the so called benign sexism, even that irritates the fuck out of me, always has. You're going along with a group of male work colleagues talking as peers and you get to a door and they all go weird as fuck! Leaping out the way etc. Ushering.

Anyway. So this is why I realise I have trouble with this. I've been fighting all these years for people to see me as a person first, for women to be seen as people first. Now we have to stand up at the start of an important thing and announce hello yes I'm a woman, not only that, it is what I strongly identify with, whatever that means (stereotypes???). Yeah not good.

I suppose these days I'd cut my hair short and Id as non binary.

We are losing a whole generation of feminists to this, possibly.

Must contestants state whether they are Jewish or Sikh or Christian? Because that is what this amounts to, religion and placing one before others (Genderism).

I think this is one of those occasions where Posie’s “Just fuck off. No.” is appropriate.

My dd went to a summer school course on Feminism at one of the ivy league universities in the US. The professor told them it was bad form to create an environment in which people had to give their pronouns as people might not be ready to commit or state or want some privacy. So even from a trans-inclusion point of view, this is a stupid policy.

As always though, it is all about the easy optics that can be forced on children/girls/women. Actually changing the social dynamics that make an effeminate-looking man fear for his life in a male bathroom would be far too difficult to take on.

Stereotype threat + forcing people to out themselves and/or lie is what I'd emphasise.

I mean, put the 'forcing questioning students to out themselves or lie' first, because we all know no-one gives two hoots about girls, but put the stereotype threat in too, because it's true.

My pronouns are I/you.

“My name is ‘Miss ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas’ thank you.”

Cis is a nonsense term.

Could you ask them to explain how you knows which gender identity matches your sex?