Woman's Hour Jo Swinson Now - 6th Dec

The most useful bit of the interview with Jo Swinson, for me, was the bit when she floundered and resorted to the Lib Dem mantra of "There is not a hierarchy of equality

EB responded: " But you are creating one, aren't you?"

She's is exactly right. The implicit suggestion, and application, of Self ID and of permitting trans-women ( vast majority of whom are fully male bodied) into women's intimate spaces and services, and into women's sports, onto short-lists etc is that the TW rights, needs, requirements, comfort( and their feelings of validation) are more important than those of women.

The discussion of 'rights' and 'equal rights' clouds the issue ( & it does with the Labou party too) that this is not so much about civil rights - which nobody is against for anyone......but about necessary protections and safeguarding procedures which are based on biological sex, and which is why they currently exist.

She's lost her seat before and it could happen again. As previously said, the more exposure she gets, the less popular she becomes.

Yes, this interests me too, Merrymouse. If "gender dysphoria" is depathologised and "gender identity" becomes the protected characteristic on the basis of feelings/innate essence, why would a socialised health service have anything to do with it? It would be mere cosmetic procedure.

Thanks for the transcription, pencils.

Can not believe that she’s doubling down on this belief in an epidemic of violent lesbians to support opening up women’s refuges to males.

Bloody hellfire, does some wee part of her not go “hang on a minute, am I not sounding a tiny bit homophobic here?”

I’m so disappointed in how dim/unquestioning she’s turned out to be. I so wanted to get behind her.

She’s not wrong that she’s an “enthusiastic” feminist, though. As a PP pointed out, that’s what you call someone who really enjoys some sort of activity, but is comically bad at it. She’s the Eddie the Eagle of feminism.

At the moment medical treatment - a diagnosis of dysphoria - precedes a GRC.

However, it's not clear whether any kind of treatment could be refused once somebody has a GRC.

We know that detransitioners are saying that they weren't given proper counselling before starting treatment, but would a doctor even be able to suggest counselling to somebody who already has a GRC?

Ferring was interested in this novel use for their expensive drug because they market Triptorelin, one of the GnRH antagonists used in gender clinics under the brand names Diphereline and Gonapeptyl.

I'd usually write this kind of thing off, but according to thread below, part of Lib Dem policy is that a GRC would enable medical treatment?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3759611-Searching-for-a-party-LibDems-on-trans

"The Liberal Democrats will introduce a policy which will allow people to be recognised as their gender, without the dehumanising process of being diagnosed and proving their identity.

This will mean that trans people will be able to transition and receive support from the NHS without a gender dysphoria diagnosis."

(Unfortunately I don't know who said this - whether it's official Lib Dem policy or just a quote from a random Lib Dem)

Three things that make me question the link are:

1. I can understand why a company like Ferring would support the Lib Dems because of Brexit Policy
2. The idea that doctors would be forced to provide drugs on the basis of self declaration rather than diagnosis seems far fetched.

However, this Guardian article
www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/26/trans-patients-in-england-face-soul-destroying-wait-for-treatment
Implies that there is pressure on doctors to supply drugs on demand.

Unfortunately, at this point I can believe that there are Lib Dem MPs who would rather campaign for drugs on demand than more research and more funding of specialist treatment.

It's the party that contains Joanna Cherry.

To go to a point made by another poster merrymouse voting SNP might trigger a livelier debate. As we've seen, when this stuff gets debated, the gender identity ideology can often come over really badly.

But then another independence referendum. Tricky.

Sorry, my comment relates to Jo Swinson’s constituency

I also wanted to say thank you for the transcription of the interview and for the information about the funding from Ferring - which is basically, if I understand it correctly, that the Lib Dem have received £1.5m from a company that makes drugs which can be used as puberty blockers?

The point is that reforming the GRA is a devolved issue- and there is nothing that says that you have to vote for the same party in the Westminster and Scottish elections. If you want to vote for a party which supports remain, it is either Lib Dem or SNP. I voted Lib Dem in 2017 because I could not bring myself to vote for Nicholson (who came to my door and entirely put me off), and I voted Labour prior to that, but that seemed to me a wasted vote, really, and not something I could now do.

Reforming the GRA is on the Scottish government’s agenda prior to the next Scottish election, so it is not something which is relevant in Scotland to the Westminster elections (aside from the fact that one would not wish an MP who does not reside in England and sit in an English constituency to ride roughshod over women’s right there). Addressing the issue in Scotland can be better achieved by mobilising against proposed changes in Scotland through Scottish organisations and supporting those MPs and MSPs who have voiced concerns.

If being "gender critical" is your big thing what difference does voting SNP make?

It's the party that contains Joanna Cherry.

She might not be the leader, but she has been allowed to express her views. In today's politics that is big.

In order to keep the stronghold Tory out in my area I have to vote Lib Dem. but now I’ve heard Jo Swinson I can’t! Gah!! There is no party to vote for. I despair...

Yes, I have the same dilemma - Lib Dem in my constituency only has a 2,000 majority over the SNP and may be overturned - this time round I'm going to have to go LD because keeping the UK together is also a priority for me.

So tactically I should vote SNP to counter Swinson’s betrayal

If being "gender critical" is your big thing what difference does voting SNP make? Sturgeon is fully on board with everything you are opposing.

My constituency is the same Lib Dem/SNP contest- defeating the separatist party is far more important for me.

Swinson had 10% lead over that SNP pillock John Nicholson in 2017. It will be a straight Lib Dem / SNP contest. I hope the Tory voters swing towards her- I can't see why they wouldn't. It's not as if the Lib Dems have a hope of being in government and every seat not won by the SNP is a bonus.

@GeordieTerf In 2017 SNP got 17k votes and Lib Dem’s won with 21k. Labour & Tories 7k each so its a 2-horse race between Lib Dem’s & SNP. So tactically I should vote SNP to counter Swinson’s betrayal but can I bring myself to? Would it be better to ‘waste’ a vote on a party I can’t believe in or spoil my vote and scrawl across my paper something that shows why I’m spoiling it? Any suggestions?! I’m so torn about what to do.

Surely its impossible to be a feminist and not be able to tell women apart from other people. Screw that cis shit, thats how much she's a feminist.

One thing is for sure - I may not be sure on who to vote for - I feel I have nobody to vote for - but I will be watching the results like a hawk.

To those in Swinson's seat: what are the chances of her losing it?

Yes. It's even more stark when written out! Thanks for the transcription, Pencils.

Jo Swinson makes reference to "everyone" - well, that one word is erasing women. Just like that.

We're talking about women's spaces - spaces for those of born female - but Jo Swinson wants to talk "everyone".

She describes herself as a feminist, but won't even allow women their own separate category - to be recognised as distinct from males.

HOW is letting some males into women's spaces going to be any good for women? "Be nice" - it's all I ever hear these days. It's like this generation's version of "think of England".

Me too.

I've given up trying to find a party to vote for in this election, I just want the debate to happen now, as publicly as possible.

Thor's is where I am too.

I too am in Jo Swinson’s constituency. Haven’t met the SNP candidate yet but haven’t seen anything in her campaign literature that mentions the GRC or issues relating to Women’s sex based rights. I would like to vote for SNP because of Cherry and McAlpine but the latest statements from Sturgeon are making me revisit this decision. Was approached by SNP in Glasgow’s west end and said I’ll only vote for you if I believe there are enough people in the party who are interested in my rights as a woman and the woman was so frank about how she personally and her fellow SNP women’s group (Kelvinside?) are doing all they can to counter the pressure to reform the GRA and ignore women’s sex based rights. But then Nicola spoke her nonsense and I’m in two minds, again. But Jo is not getting my vote.

I've given up trying to find a party to vote for in this election, I just want the debate to happen now, as publicly as possible.

But if you are gender critical then there’s no point in voting SNP as Nicola Sturgeon believes TWAW too. McAlpine and Cherry are nobodies. Sturgeon is the SNP. Her husband is the CEO of the SNP - what Sturgeon says goes.

I would love JHB to interview Swinson for the simple fact that she would absolutely call out her using "cis".