JO SWINSON ON LBC NOW

Yes I heard that, considering it’s on every form and questionnaire you would imagine it’s a very very high number and so worth collecting the data. All rather a mystery.

Also still can’t get my head around Trans population 100% believing they are in wrong body and at the same time there also this huge non binary thing going on. Either sex is really really important enough for you to turn your life around, or sex gender as we know it doesn’t exist. If these big cultural movements happened a generation apart you could say well society now doesn’t think it matters. But both changes at the same time? Really doesn’t fit together in any logical way.

If X is now an option and anyone can change birth sex it’s becomes irrelevant . So let’s just stop it altogether.

I can't believe that Jo Swinson, when asked how many trans people there are in the UK, said we could look it up in the census.

That wasn't recorded in the last census, was it? Did she just think of that answer on the spur of the moment?

This is from the Government Equalities Office last year:

How many trans people are there?
We don’t know. No robust data on the UK trans population exists. We tentatively estimate that there are approximately 200,000-500,000 trans people in the UK. The Office for National Statistics is researching whether and how to develop a population estimate.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721642/GEO-LGBT-factsheet.pdf

So nobody has any ideas of the actual numbers, and the ONS isn't even sure whether they should be trying to find out (or how to go about this probably impossible task).

I thought that Women's Hour played a blinder by having an article about modern slavery straight after Jo Swindon's car crash interview.

Hearing women who have been trafficked and abused in the most abominable way speak, juxtaposed with a political leader confirmed that she would prevent them from having the single sex services they clearly, sadly, need - well, that really moved me.

Jo Swinson, and her party, are either stupid or misogynists.

I have voted for them many times. Not any more.

I can't believe that Jo Swinson, when asked how many trans people there are in the UK, said we could look it up in the census.

Right now there's a very active fight on to keep the Scottish census reality-based and ensure that that question can be meaningfully answered in future. Swinson is opposed to the women leading this fight.

I am so sick of being patronised and ignored by people who know far, far less than we do about what trans activists actually want and how they fight for it.

Jo's argument that a man should be able to request being cavity searched by a woman if that is his 'preference' was just embarrassing

This is how much respect Jo Swinson has for women. A woman should be forced to perform an intimate search on a man who would 'prefer' to be searched by a woman. Jo Swinson thinks women should have no right to refuse male demands.

And then to say that she'd prefer a woman to do her smear test. Does she not realise that under LibDem proposals a man could just identify as a woman and she would have no right to dispute his self identified womanhood?

Reminds me of a violent suspect a police force down south was looking for earlier this year. Had to ask for public help on social media. Suspect identified as a woman so they used language to support that gender identity but also used a photo which completely went against and contradicted everything they had written. I wonder how long it will take them to figure out that people see and read other humans in sex, not gender, and that this stuff is dangerous. Even a "suspect is male but presents and/or identifies as a woman" would have helped but they couldn't even say that. Completely bonkers.

Jo's argument that a man should be able to request being cavity searched by a woman if that is his 'preference' was just embarrassing

What the fuck is wrong with the woman 😳.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/lib-dem-leader-jo-swinson-grilled-by-lbc-listeners/

It starts 18 minutes in.

I thought the initial caller did us no favours because the question was about school uniform.

Ferrari segued very nicely into passports and Jo's argument that a man should be able to request being cavity searched by a woman if that is his 'preference' was just embarrassing.

Jo seems to be driving from one car crash to another.
She is making herself look like an utter fool.

It's amazing the degree to which many people have never tried to think through the logic of their ideas about this.

It is like they have decided that in is nice to be nice to transwomen. So they sit down with their chosen nice transwoman (who has lots of prizes for being nice and runs influential stuff) who sorts out their policies and tells them what is what, and gives them the chosen phrases for questions that will be asked, such as the one about not asking for birth certificates to go to the lavatory.

Then off they go and get interviewed. What could go wrong?

She refused to see any issues at all.

It's amazing the degree to which many people have never tried to think through the logic of their ideas about this. And then they seem really surprised when people want them to be able to link up the ideas, that they should make sense.
I wonder, what goes on inside their heads when they realise, I can't make this make sense, I can't answer these questions, there might not be an answer that is the kind of answer I think must be right.
That seems to be the rub, they are so sure that a certain answer must be the right one, based on the fact that it's been presented as a progressive issue, an equal rights issue, that there is no way out of that.

The word ‘bigot’ these days seems to be thrown at anyone who doesn’t agree with a narrow set of ideological beliefs which is, ironically, the precise opposite of what ‘bigot’ means.

Just listening to the women's hour podcast - good god she's being destroyed. This is embarrassingly cringe worthy.

Yes she really was woeful. I felt embarrassed for her that she thinks that she is in anyway a leader. She came across as spectacularly dim.

She was just awful, everyone can identify how they like as doesn’t effect anyone else. Unless of course you are a women who can’t or prefers not share some spaces with men in which case you can just stay at home.

She also didn’t see any problems with people having no gender whatever. So Nik was saying so airport is looking for suspect who’s 5’5” with blonde hair but we can’t give a sex, and you don’t see any problems with this? Apparently this would not cause any security problems because it’s just gender.

She also tried to do the picking Genders works both ways, like asking for a female for smear test. All very well, but if that person is identifying as a female as opposed to “observed at birth” then you are not going get what you ask for. So little point being able ask for females if you could get anyone. She refused to see any issues at all.

I listen to him often and yes I disagree with him on many things although have not heard him be racist or disablist. His attitude to women's rights is not great on some issues. I would not describe him as a 'bigot' but then I do not use that word as it is meaningless.

I do, however, LIKE listening to/speaking with people I disagree with - I would hate to live in an echo chamber. That's what the TRAs do.

I am not sure how him questioning whether an 'X' on a passport is a fucking stupid idea or not comes from a place of bigotry? Rather plain old common sense and a belief that biological sex is a thing. Many thousands of people will have agreed with him this morning and Swinson lost votes - that is a bloody good result in my book.

It is a shame that you feel like this because he is one of the few broadcasters holding this crappy ideology up to the light

None of which excuses the fact that he is a bigot who regularly demonstrates his racism, disablism and anti-feminism. He is only pursuing this issue because he perceives it to rank in the same area as his other obsessions. If anything, he damages the cause because in his case it stems from the same bigotry and not from any form of reasoned thought.

How do people, people who are supposed to be leaders, get into this mindset?

Guess it's what happens when you enter the age of thought policing. They never expect to be asked any real questions, too used in this subject matter to being applauded. They never have to explain themselves

When are these complete fuckwits going to realise that if they're supporting something that falls to pieces when exposed to criticism, and their understanding means that they are not capable of defending it, then there's something fundamentally wrong. This isn't even a point about trans.

I think this is a really important question that gets to the roots of the whole concept of public discourse. How do people, people who are supposed to be leaders, get into this mindset? As someone in education I see it as a failure that starts there.

I cannot stand Ferrari under any circumstances, and I'm prepared to bet that his "playing a blinder" mostly consisted of constantly interrupting and refusing to let the interviewee finish whenever she said anything he didn't personally like.

It is a shame that you feel like this because he is one of the few broadcasters holding this crappy ideology up to the light.
She spouted absolute crap and he held her to account. I rather enjoyed it.

No she said that it would be ok to request a woman for a smear but she was getting flustered.

But she did say that if a man wanted to be searched at customs by a woman then there was no problem with that at all.

It was a complete shitshow from start to finish and she will have lost many more voters after this abomination of an interview. Good.

Did Swinson actually say this on LBC:

twitter.com/elleandback/status/1202886637862174720

If so, then, well, I'm lost for words.

This is what you get when you replace the idea of "steelmanning" an argument (trying it against the best your opponent has to offer) with demanding validation and cutting off debate.

All anyone on the pro-trans side of the debate can do is parrot thought-terminating cliches. They get to a question they can't answer, and the slogans go off like fireworks in a grand finale, one after another, sometimes on top of each other.

They go back to the thought-terminating cliches as a way of separating from the cognitive dissonance the questions make them feel. TWAW is the most obvious, but there are others.

Thanks for the link to Jean's very interesting twitter thread MsMcWibble. Some extra interesting tweets below the 'more replies' line.