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Original poster

Another SNP member having to resign due to ‘antisemitism’

90 replies

Birdsfoottrefoil · 04/12/2019 21:00

Denise Findley:

www.heraldscotland.com/news/18080232.new-snp-resignation-alleged-anti-semitism/

I suspect it is no coincidence that these posts have come to light when you read who has been supporting her. However, her posts were certainly ill-advised. Israel as a state can be rightly criticise but comparing it to Nazis is never going to read well and your point will immediately be lost in the comparison. Is it antisemitism or just offensive?

The problem is people who speak out and go against the grain to raise genuine issues of concern are also those who are generally less guarded in what they say.

OP posts:
xxyzz · 05/12/2019 01:00

Ah, Birds, so words will mean what you say they mean, not what they actually do mean.

How very, very convenient.

So the Jewish State = a handful of "bad Jews" that you don't like.

Thu allowing you (in your head) to get away with calling the Jewish State "Nazis".

Because calling Jews by the name of their mass-murderers isn't remotely offensive. Angry

Toorahtoorahaye · 05/12/2019 00:39

Why does israel get constantly singled out for criticism in a way other countries/governments with dubious HRights records do not? Why choose nazi to use against Israel and Israeli Jews?

noblegiraffe · 05/12/2019 00:34

Do you think the government, police and army are made up of people not of that country?

Or do you accept that as Israel’s population is 75% Jewish, that if you compare the army/police/government to Nazis, that will cover a lot of Jewish people?

Original poster
Birdsfoottrefoil · 05/12/2019 00:26

Ok, when I stay state I mean government, and when I refer to actions of the state of Israel I mean through legislation, police, army. And when I say ‘other brutal states’ I refer to governments/police/army not the people of those countries. This is a standard use of the word ‘state’, I am sorry if you took it to mean the people.

OP posts:
xxyzz · 04/12/2019 23:53

And for the record, don't pretend to care about women's rights while attacking the rights and safety of Jewish women.

xxyzz · 04/12/2019 23:47

BlackForestCake

"Antisemitism is being weaponised, since it worked so well against Jeremy Corbyn."

Oh do fuck off.

Stop with the "weaponising racism" shit.

Pointing out politicians being racist isn't "weaponising" it.

If politicians don't want to have their racism pointed out they should...er...stop being racist.

Can't believe that the people who object to the racism are the ones being attacked here, while the racists are being presented as the victims (of their own racism!).

And for avoidance of doubt, yes of course it's fucking racist to compare the Jewish state to the Nazis. That's hardly rocket science. The Nazis murdered 2/3 of European Jews in less than 6 years. Horrifically, deliberately, methodically.

To compare that to Israeli actions against Palestinians is beyond ludicrous. It's outrageous, disgusting, deliberately offensive, and yes, extremely racist.

JanesKettle · 04/12/2019 23:39

If I were the OP I'd be embarrassed at having put inverted commas round antisemitism.

I felt really sad when I saw the inverted commas.

WeDieAndSeeBeautyReign · 04/12/2019 23:36

It's always a pleasure seeing an SNP MP/ candidate behaving like an idiot and anything which loses them votes is fine by me. I can't see the full Herald story so here's The Sun's take on it.

This woman was supposed to be involved in party discipline yet she is contributing to a crowdfunder for Neale Hanvey?

www.google.com/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/politics/5029421/snp-member-probing-neale-hanvey-anti-jewish-quits-israel-nazi/amp/

If The Sun report is accurate I'm struggling to see how one could possibly have sympathy for her. If I were the OP I'd be embarrassed at having put inverted commas round antisemitism.

noblegiraffe · 04/12/2019 23:17

The criticism here is of the state.

Do you know who compares the Jewish nation-state of Israel to the Nazis?

Antisemites.

And you know exactly why.

JanesKettle · 04/12/2019 23:10

It's the specific actions of successive Iraeli GOVERNMENTS that we can and should critique.

Critiquing the state is no different to critiquing the nation. IMO.

I don't see that this is difficult or contentious in any way, and if any politician or aspiring politician who wanted my vote continued to be wedded to their right to critique the 'Jewish state', as opposed to the actions of particular governments, I'd refuse them my vote, whether or not our values aligned elsewhere.

I'm not suggesting these tweets/statement may not have been dug up in the service of other agendas, but ffs, how hard is it to avoid anti-Semistism ?! If I stood as a GC candidate, no-one could use my anti-Semitic statements against me, because I don't make them! Should that not be the standard ?

Original poster
Birdsfoottrefoil · 04/12/2019 23:05

Yes I understand that it would be anti Semitic to call the Jewish nation Nazis (or any other derogatory term). But there is a distinction between the nation and the state. The criticism here is of the state. I also think it is grossly offensive to use the Nazis in reference to the state of Israel.

If the actions of the state of Israel were compared to other brutal states that subjugated certain groups of people would that be antisemitic or a criticism of the actions of the state?

OP posts:
BlackForestCake · 04/12/2019 23:04

There is a civil war about to break out in the SNP where the misogynists will find out exactly how popular their some-women-have-penises horseshit is among the rank and file.

Antisemitism is being weaponised, since it worked so well against Jeremy Corbyn. Lots of people in the SNP have tweeted something intemperate about Gaza. Only the gender critical ones are being targeted.

JanesKettle · 04/12/2019 21:39

It is anti-Semitic to call the Jewish nation, Nazis.
How is this even in doubt ?

It is very sad that there is anti-Semitism in the SNP; it reflects an acceptance of anti-Semitism more broadly.

Israeli women and girls are our sisters, just as Palestinian women and girls are our sisters. We can care about, and agitate for, the rights of Palestinian women and girls without calling Israeli Jewish women the name of those that sought to wipe them from the face of the earth.

GC feminism needs to root out its own tolerance of anti_Semitism.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 04/12/2019 21:16

Another casualty of the culling of anyone pro-women in the SNP by the wee woke misogynists.

Merename · 04/12/2019 21:09

I agree, the use of language is the issue. I don’t agree this is anti Semitic, but I do think she should have been more thoughtful in her language. I would be really interested to hear from people if they feel this is anti Semitic. More open discussion is needed.