Another SNP member having to resign due to ‘antisemitism’

Is very easy to criticise the state of Israel without being anti-Semitic. People who feel otherwise need to take a hard look at themselves.

Absolutely party members who make anti-Semitic comments should be out.

What is interesting is how unevenly this is being applied. Only members who are openly GC are having their tweets examined in this way by other party members. Other party members who have also tweeted deeply offensive comments, and openly gloat about how they are getting people removed so their own people can take their places.

Removing anti Semitic people is a useful side effect, but it is not their goal, which is to purge gender critical people from the party. Those of you who are happy to see this happening to the SNP are correct. The SNP is not going to be able to continue much past this election as they are going to implode.

but there are some people who believe that any criticism of the actions of Israel is anti-Semitic

They’re wrong. But we have an OP who thinks it’s not antisemitic to call the Jewish state Nazis. Merely ‘offensive’. Which goes against the IHRA definition of antisemitism.

Agreeing that it is antisemitic to compare these Jews to Nazis but in the same breath arguing that it’s not antisemitic to compare those Jews to Nazis is an odd position to be taking.

Best to avoid comparing any Jews to Nazis, right?

Agree noble but there are some people who believe that any criticism of the actions of Israel is anti-Semitic and I have seen this in action time and time again. This is very unhelpful.

Talking about ‘Israel’ very clearly means the state (ie the government) and it is not anti-Semitic to do this. We do this in respect of literally every other country whose regime is criticised. It does not mean that the individual citizens are being criticised.

The one thing I have noted is that often the pro-Palestine people are the woke-bros who harass women with GC views. Maybe they will get a taste of their own medicine and see how it feels to be vilified and have your words twisted when you are just making a reasonable point.

Pointing out that the actions of the Israeli government are abhorrent isn’t antisemitic.

Comparing them to Nazis is. The IHRA definition of antisemitism lists “Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.“

This isn’t rocket science.

The government IS the state. It’s an arm of the state.

Comparisons with Nazis are wrong but the israeli government deserves to be heavily criticised for its treatment of Palestinians, as does the Chinese government and the government of many other countries who commit human rights violations. Pointing this out is not anti-Semitic, just the same as it is not racist to accuse Zimbabwe of human rights abuse. Comparison to Nazism is wrong though.

Posted too soon - And I agree - anti-semiticism must be fought and rejected on its own merits, independently and alongside anything else going on

Surely people can critique military and political actions in Israel without invoking the Nazis. If people do the latter, the discussion inevitably shifts to in inappropriate-ness (or otherwise) if the comparison - and away from the specific actions they want to critique.

not only because it might make GC feminists look bad.

Yeah, my comment was a bad take, really. Sorry. I don't quite know what I was trying to express there.

To be clear, we should want candidates to be anti-Semitic because we want a society and governments free of anti-Semistism. Not because PR for our own movements. Whether it looks good for GC feminism or bad for GC feminism is irrelevant, because anti-Semitism, in any context, is wrong.

Sure you did, Birds.

Not sure I understood your last comment, JanesKettle, but I hope that people would be sad that a GC candidate was anti-Semitic on behalf of the Jews upset/affected by this and not only because it might make GC feminists look bad.

*because it brings the GC movement into disrepute

We see you, Birds.

You can fuck off now.

PS Nothing about caring for Palestinians requires you to be anti-Semitic to Jews.

You don't support one oppressed people by oppressing another lot.

If you think repeated use of comparisons of Israel = Nazism is anti-Semistic, then why are you bothered that someone who did that very thing has been booted ?

I understand being angry that a GC candidate was anti-Semitic, but surely no-one can be sad/mad that she's gone ?

I’m suspicious with people who criticize Israel but have no criticism for Hamas or the rockets constantly being launched at Israel. Yes, Israelis are paranoid (with good reason) and think Palestinians and many of it’s neighbours would wipe them out if they had the means. Israel is not above criticism - but neither are Hamas and the intentions of many Palestinians

Apologies, that should read Sartre's handy quote on anti-Semites.

It's a very useful quote for sealions of all stripes though.

Why choose nazi to use against Israel and Israeli Jews?

Yes. China is currently approximating elements of Nazism in the internment, torture and death in 'camps' of an entire categorty of 'undesirables' - Uighurs - yet I hear no-one choosing to describe the Chinese state as 'Nazis'.

Jews and women - the two groups called 'Nazis' by the left. Shame.

This is probably a good time to bring out Sartre's handy quote on the Nazis.

NB This also applies handily to TRAs. (Substitute TRAs or AWAs for "anti-Semites".)

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

"I don’t think it is clear that antisemitism was the real reason behind her being targeted and forced to resign"

Oh do fuck off.

She REPEATEDLY compared and defended comparing Israel to the Nazis.

I can't be bothered to waste any more time explaining to you why that is grotesquely offensive and anti-Semitic. And if you are defending that, then you yourself are blatantly anti-Semitic.

I don't think you "ask questions" in good faith. You know perfectly well that this blatantly racist.

And if so how should this be done?

Without reference to Nazis? that still leaves you with a lot of options.

You might not think it’s antisemitic, but the IHRA definition of antisemitism thinks it is, and I suspect that the people who came up with that definition know a lot more about antisemitism and antisemites than you.

And this, in a nutshell, is why I couldn't ever vote for a party led by Corbyn.

Because this is what he and his cronies have normalised in Labour and across the left. In just a few short years, anti-Semitism has been become so normalised that people like Birds or BlackForestCake will have the nerve to imagine they are on the left rather than out there with the ultra-racists.