Accused of cherry-picking trans horror stories

You cannot convince every woman that male people are 'really women', because they really aren't.

So their presence in female facilities is intrusive, their presence in female sleeping areas is the same problem as other men, and their presence in female sports is just as unfair.

This is what it all boils down to.

This was my favourite bit:

A good sign that someone us spreading propaganda is the endless use of blogs as sources.

Um, my link that one in fifty prisoners identifies as trans wasaccording to the annual report by Peter Clarke, the chief inspector of prisons.

Nobody, not trans groups, certainly some cis guy has the foggiest idea how many trans people are in prison or for what.

There is not a single statistic that exists outside of right-wing opinion piece imaginations, and blogs that suggest trans women have anything remotely like 'male criminality'.

Looking at these two statements, It's not clear how it's possible to draw any conclusions about a population that you refuse to define, or at what point somebody self defining as trans would be less likely to possess any traits or qualities associated with their sex.

I'm nodding along to free's point about it being impossible to know if how people choose to describe their innermost identity is accurate, though.

We can't, can we? So it's a bit pointless to let anyone 'self ID' as anything. There's no reason to believe them.

Probably more sensible to go with the traditional empirical evidence of sex, not gender, then, really. Glad we cleared that one up...

No answers then?

There never are any. Sadly. ☹️

Yes I agree littl.

To me it’s also about the blurring of boundaries for girls and boys

Children

So there’s a guy in their single sex changing room but he says he’s a woman and not to worry.

How are children able to enforce their boundaries or to even know their boundaries if we don’t allow them to see what they are seeing
It’s a biazzare and worrying time

No answers then?

It was going so well too.

Are her feelings of unease bigoted? If she should accept both male people in her spaces then why have single sex spaces at all??

Not to mention: why are the male people's feelings and right to be in her space against her will more important than considering the impact on the female?

Datun's question above - what single benefit to the female is there in this?

all logic and data points that currently exist

I am very interested to read more studies that include any data at all on rates of criminality among trans gender people of both sexes. Can you provide links? As far as I’m aware the data we have is very limited and So far, no study I know of has shown a significant difference in criminality between trans women and other groups of natal male people. I would be more than happy to be proven wrong as it would be something of a relief.

I will say however that even if trans women were shown to have female-typical rates of violent and sexual crimes (again please send links!), there still is the issue of women in vulnerable situations being unable to tell if the person in front of her is a trans woman minding her own business or a natal male person taking advantage of the situation (who presumably would be a male-typical risk for sexual or violent assault). What specifically should a woman made uncomfortable by a male in her intimate spaces do to clarify the situation? Are her feelings of unease bigoted? If she should accept both male people in her spaces then why have single sex spaces at all??

On the plus side, we've seen extensive application of the word 'nefarious'. Someone's English teacher will be proud

Seconded, Crone.

I wonder whether projection is a psychoanalytical cliché or just a useful concept.

But some people really really want you to believe Propaganda outlets like fairplay for women, whose whole raison detre is anti trans, claims to have evidence and a convoluted juggling of figures to show trans women are male, despite the M.O.J. making exceedingly clear with the F.O.I. none of those figures are reliable.

Have you published your analysis of the MoJ figures? I'd like to see it.

The only trans people that are counted in prisons in the UK, are those that satisfy two requirements, to be long-term, and to have requested a case review outing themselves.

So the ones with a GRC giving them a legal sex of female, who are automatically sent to women's prisons, are not counted? Worrying. Especially if self-ID becomes law.

These threads are always brilliant.

Sunlight.

You can simply read up this thread and see the defensive reactions of people invested in a one-way nefarious narrative.

That seems like a particularly accurate description of what you are doing freethegenders.

A good sign that someone us spreading propaganda is the endless use of blogs as sources.

I should have pointed out that the medium article I linked to contained statistics obtained via a FOI request made to the MoJ by the BBC. The figures are from the MoJ. I linked to this because it gives you the figures in an accessible format.

You are free to do your own analysis of the statistics if you disagree with the analysis done by the author of that article. But the statistics are still those supplied by the government.

If you think the government has manipulated the statistics before supplying them as a response to a FOI request, that is another issue altogether.

With all due respect, free, you're the one who is ranting here.

Nobody on FWR wants transwomen to suffer (I'm surprised you left out the space between trans and women) but even you acknowledge that there are differences between "trans people and women" (your words), and that these groups have different needs and therefore need different provisions. Which is what many posters would be happy with - third spaces. But the problem is the aggressive demand for access to women's spaces for people who are born male and always remain male because you cannot change your sex.

I'm really sorry but I will never change my mind on this point. You cannot change your biological sex. Can you tell me what is kind about peddling the lie that it is possible?

freethegenders

Please give me one, single solitary benefit to women provided by mixed sex facilities, that were previously women only.

Are you claiming men are disadvantaged because of safeguarding put in place by factual statistics?

You could ask them if they think women deserve this safeguarding measure, after all the intention is to take sex segregated spaces away from 31million women-all re-developments in the future will be unisex.
Other measures against dysfunctional men include:
Speed bumps to stop joyriding.
Airport security tightened to protect against terrorism.
Security in every other area gets tighter over time not more lax! Why is there a huge cultural experiment being run on women when just a very small tiny % increase in crime will result in a lot of misery for so many women.

Yet you claim so some cis man in charge of prisons who makes an entirely ridicolous and unfounded claim as though he has the remotest idea of peoples innermost identity,

No one has the remotest idea of anyone's innermost identity, do they? You're quite right.

Yes I understand you really really want innocent trans peopleto pay for what men may or may not do.

How is treating transwomen the same as any other man making them pay?

FWRLurker

Excellent post. Calm, comprehensive and clear.