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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lush has fallen

239 replies

WomanBornNotWorn · 30/11/2019 11:21

One more shop to walk past

m.facebook.com/events/1490182737818126?acontext=%7B%22ref%22%3A%223%22%2C%22action_history%22%3A%22null%22%7D&aref=3

Lush has fallen
OP posts:
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 02/12/2019 00:29

And their staff are way over aggressive and stuff stinks - dyes your bath and once even dyed DS blue. Don’t get me started on the glitter in your...

I know you can't and wouldn't post them here for obvious reasons but I hope you took photos of your Smurf son before the dye washed off!

Also, that thing where people lurk, not contributing but ever on the lookout for confused newbies who they can redirect to a different, less prone to critical thinking site is a bit creepy. Reminds me of the combination of love bombing and don't talk to outsiders they're dangerous that cults do.

littlecabbage · 01/12/2019 22:49

Thanks littl - means a lot coming from a well-respected poster like yourself.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 01/12/2019 22:23

Well I've known transgender people since university, so around 20 odd years. Just like anyone else, some are okay, some are not.

I would imagine that's the case for most people on this board.

That was before the new crazy wave of bullshit, that told us humans can literally change their sex (not gender- sex) and all female spaces should therefore be open to male bodied people. Sport should too.

Meanwhile you've attempted every route under the sun to shut women up.

Come on then, where's the untruth?

littlbrowndog · 01/12/2019 22:12

Great post cabbage

💪

littlecabbage · 01/12/2019 22:08

Sorry for the late reply @puds11. You asked me:

Can I ask more about your view on people not being able to be born into the wrong body? This is one of the terms I hear a lot as to why trans people undergo transition.

I am a scientist, and I therefore understand that we are a sexually diamorphic species, i.e. there are two sexes, female XX and male XY.

Women know they are female because they have a vagina and breasts. They do not "feel" female due to liking pink, enjoying shopping, being good at ballet, or preferring to have long hair. These are gender stereotypes. Yes, many women have a preference for some or all of these things, but that does not define their femaleness, and does not exclude women with short hair who play rugby and drink pints, from being female.

You will often hear accounts of transwomen (born male) saying that they "always knew they were female", because they enjoyed wearing dresses as a child, and preferred "girls' toys". This does not make them female. This makes them a male who prefers things more traditionally associated with females due to (outdated) gender stereotyping.

What makes you feel like a woman? For me, it is the fact that I look down and see a female body. And also that society treats me like a woman - sometimes male strangers insist "Ladies first", I have been discriminated against at work for being female, I get judged on my looks far more than men do, I am careful where I walk alone late at night to try to avoid sexual assault by a man. Other than that, I am a bit of a mixture between male and female stereotypes. I wear skirts some days, and trousers other days. I have had short and long hair styles in the past. I love science, but also baking. I hate the colour pink. I don't enjoy clothes shopping.

How can a man say that he feels like a woman in his head? He has no idea what it feels like to be a woman. He does not have a female body (has never experienced a period, has never had his breasts stared at by men), and he has no lived experience of being a woman (has not had to worry about his safety in a car park at night, has not faced discrimination at work due to being female, etc). Yes, perhaps he enjoys wearing a skirt, high heels, and make-up, but identifying with sexual stereotypes does not mean that you have a "female" brain.

I fully believe that SOME people who identify as transgender, are genuinely distressed by their body, but that does not mean their body is wrong. It means they have a psychological disorder. This may be caused/exacerbated by previous sexual abuse, autistic spectrum disorder, feelings of being homosexual and fear about whether family/society will accept them, or other mental health issues such as depression.

Anorexics have genuine dysphoria about their bodies, but we do not encourage them to lose further weight. We try to explore the psychological issues that are leading them to think they need to lose weight.

There is no scientific proof that someone can be "born into the wrong body". I think genuine gender dysphoria must be awful, and I think that those individuals deserve our help and support, especially children and young people. But that support should be counselling, CBT, and other psychological therapy that helps them to feel more comfortable with their bodies.

I hope I have managed to explain this well. It's been a busy old day, and I'm very tired!

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 01/12/2019 21:08

And to choose World AIDs day was a bit of an odd one wasn’t it?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 01/12/2019 20:34

Noone is scared of people - it’s the loss of rights and woman only spaces that scares women.

Faztastic · 01/12/2019 20:30

There are countless reactions from mostly the Times and Daily Mail and very easy to look up. I didn't wear the apron as I am not a member of staff, just a friendly face offering my knowledge and experience of being transgender. Which as I said was all positively received. Get to know some of us and have a calm and sensible chat and maybe some of your fears would be put at ease.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 01/12/2019 19:54

I'm just pondering the rightness of all the fanjos always already knowing that Lush and its products are the enemy and rebelling - communicating with us the only way they can, by becoming extremely irritable.

Truly the female body is a fabulous mystical thing. and the vagina a source of great wonder and marvel.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 01/12/2019 19:26

I wonder if women asked about the truths?

TheChampagneGalop · 01/12/2019 19:24

Faz I also want to know what the untruths are. And I hope you were allowed to wear more than an apron?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 01/12/2019 19:16

When was their woman’s rights or promo against child abuse?

koshkat · 01/12/2019 18:55

I was one of the women handing out leaflets and chatting to the customers, highlighting the untruths peddled in the media about Trans issues.

Maybe you could share some of those 'untruths' with us?

Sunkisses · 01/12/2019 18:43

Lush...

  • Supported Mermaids in 2014
  • Allows their shops to continue to support trans groups who work to undermine women's rights and silence critics (like Trans Media Watch)
  • Lush North America ran a massive 'trans rights' campaign in Feb 2017 which called women 'cis'
  • Had a film on their homepage (which is visible to their many child customers) this year showing transsexual prostitutes, one with his penis poking out of his dress, talking about being paid to have sex with other men
  • Have products called 'Sex Bomb' marketed at children, and invite children to 'get someone you really like' to come in the shower with them to show them how to use shower gel Shock
  • Exploit their workers:
twitter.com/mondayfake/status/1195255732695961603 and mitheringsfrommorningside.wordpress.com/tag/lush/
  • Cowardly came off social media so they cannot be challenged and do not have to answer customers/critics
BarbaraStrozzi · 01/12/2019 18:32

Glad you enjoyed yourself Faz.

What's your position on male-bodied sex offenders in women's prisons?

What's your position on 6'4" male-bodied rugby players who (in their coach's words) can fold their opponents like deck chairs playing women's rugby?

What's your position on women who want female health care professionals for intimate procedures like smear tests?

Do let me have the view from unicorn and sparkles and bath bombs land, because I'd love to know.

Faztastic · 01/12/2019 18:26

I was one of the women handing out leaflets and chatting to the customers, highlighting the untruths peddled in the media about Trans issues. I have to say the staff and customers were all fabulous and the kids loved making the bath bombs. Fabulous day, a worthy cause and zero negativity.

Clymene · 01/12/2019 16:22

I always find it a good idea to make sure of your facts before you confidently make assertions, otherwise you look a little foolish @SmallCalpolFiend - your assertions are in bold

Stonewall don't classify anyone who cross-dresses as trans
From the Stonewell website:

Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, cross dresser, non-binary, gender queer.

Trans groups aren't lobbying to remove female-only spaces
Stonewall, Gendered Intelligence and Scottish Trans Alliance all submitted evidence to the GRA consultation doing precisely that. Collated evidence is here:

https://womansplaceuk.org/references-to-removal-of-single-sex-exemptions/

Or of course it's all visible on the U.K. parliament website.

It's not that easy for children to get medical help to transition, or even delay puberty
Before 2011, puberty blockers were only given to over 16s in the U.K.. Since then the age has lowered and lowered, with the youngest child being 11. Transgender treatment: Puberty blockers study under investigation www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49036145
This is despite evidence that children have increased suicidal thoughts. Over 1000 children in the U.K. have now been prescribed blockers.

Your turn backing up the other assertions you made!

TheChampagneGalop · 01/12/2019 15:42

More info about their campaign where staff were kissed by customers: mitheringsfrommorningside.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/the-smell-of-bullshit-part-22-sexual-harassment-is-part-of-the-job/
The problem occurs when staff members are required to wear t-shirts that serve not only to promote the day, but also to act as evidence for the Guinness World Record attempt. What this meant was that the customers would be kissing our bodies for the entirety of the day.
I can't believe how misogynist this company, that focuses on selling fun bath products aimed at young women, is.

littlecabbage · 01/12/2019 15:08

SmallCalpolFiend

Please see the following link to understand why the often-quoted "40% risk of attempting suicide in transgender people" is wildly inaccurate:

www.transgendertrend.com/a-scientist-reviews-transgender-suicide-stats/

TheChampagneGalop · 01/12/2019 14:45

ClientListQueen Did you feel that there was any pressure to participate in the nude campaign?

Jaxhog · 01/12/2019 14:16

Love the products - hate the politics. So no longer buying anything from them. I'm not alone. Sad, really.

ClientListQueen · 01/12/2019 14:04

@TheChampagneGalop they have. I did it in 2007 I think (I worked for Lush)

littlecabbage · 01/12/2019 13:58

I have a busy day at the mo, so will write a fuller answer later, but for now:

Stonewall don't classify anyone who cross-dresses as trans

See the glossary on their website, under "T":

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms#t

Note the term "crossdresser" under the definition. Hope that helps.

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