UK GENERAL ELECTION 2019

Thanks for all your replies, I’m going to read through that thread also.

I completely agree with what you’re saying re self-ID. If I’m completely honest I didn’t realise it was that extreme. I still assumed wrongly there would be checks in place and women would be protected.

I can’t vote Tory, and I can’t spoil my ballot. I want my Labour MP in. But I will send her an email off the back of this thread asking what provisions are in place to protect the women of her constituency should self-ID become law. Lots and lots to think about.

Prodigal summing up the issue v clearly there.

And yes, this is completely absurd. That's the point. That's why we don't want to vote for any party that's pushing this bollocks.

Like, Jason Stratham says he's a woman tomorrow? Then he is. And he's in a lesbian relationship and has been for years. If he wants to shower with you at the swimming pool, that's fine. Nobody can ask if he has a GRC. If you have a problem with that then the pool staff should suggest that you, rather than Jason, leave.

Here you go, Mustard. I've bumped it to the front page, and this is a direct link.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

And remember that under self ID anyone who says they're a transwoman is. There is no gatekeeping of any kind. Removing gatekeeping is the goal. It will literally be as simple as filling out a form, legally speaking, and in terms of access to women's spaces you won't even need to do that, because nobody will be allowed to ask for proof at the point of entry.

I think what it's key to understand here is that the people in favor of self ID would consider even asking what's going to be done to safeguard women as bigoted and transphobic, because transwomen are women and why would women need to be safeguarded from other women, and also transwomen are more vulnerable and therefore actually more in need of protection than you are you bigot, and some women have penises so why would the fact that you're sharing a jail cell with someone who has one bother you, and if that person is a convicted rapist then, well, women rape too (even though under British law that's not possible by definition), and if you question any of this then that's an attack on the most vulnerable people in society so it's you who should be kicked out of the refuge/sacked.told that if you don't want that HCP then you can just suck it up.

There can be no safeguarding with those people in charge because they refuse to admit that there might be any risk in the first place, and women's feelings just don't matter because we're the oppressors.

That's what we're fighting.

Mustard I'll reply assuming you are posting in good faith.

There are two main outcomes on Friday:

1. Conservatives win and we get 5 years of whatever they have planned (but we know the GRA and self-id was very deliberately put in a drawer and is not in a manifesto).

1. Labour win and we get 5 years of whatever they have planned. And it simply won't be the immediate nirvana they have promised, that's pie in the sky. But, crucially, we know they fully intend and are committed to the GRA reform and bringing self-id into law. They have proven time and time again they give zero fucks for any of the concerns women have. That will be unstoppable

Voting Tory is a way to bargain for more time to raise awareness for what it means for women (and children and men); and ensure these disgusting proposals get buried for good. While simultaneously firefighting the day to day issues and lobbying for tactical changes just as we have done for decades of government- of both colours.

It's not that the Tories will be great for disadvantaged women Mustard. It's that Labour made themselves even more anti-women than the Tories through this one policy.

Furthermore, the way in which Labour are being anti-women smacks of theocratic rule by men, which makes my blood run cold.

It's such an obviously insane policy yet their eyes glaze and they chant the mantras while doing over women and switching off their brains. Incredibly dangerous.

Empress similar here, my 3 non-Labour candidates have all provided deeply unsatisfactory responses to my queries, but Labour candidate hasn't replied at all.

The only reply I’ve had was from the Conservative candidate, who appears to get it.

Many of us are 'keyboard warriors' on this issue because in our daily lives we spend a fuckton of time dealing with women, children, safeguarding, refuges, hospital wards and many other coal face situations where we can see exactly what damage this ideology will do and is already doing. Look back over the years of this discussion on FWR: every damn thing women here forecast - many from bitter practical experience - has come true. All of it. And worse.

Mustard, check out the Break It Down For Me thread on this board (perhaps someone could link?) There is a lot to read, and I appreciate time is short. But I promise you, this is emphatically not a small hypothetical.

@SpartacusAutisticus I haven’t said anyone should ignore it? I just wanted to know how people could vote Tory after their proven track record of being completely anti-women.

They say they'll do it Mustard. They've been remarkably consistent on this over the last couple of years now. Labour, Lib Dems and Greens have all been extremely vocal about acceptance without exception. They have helped to shut down discussion of women's concerns. So I do believe they will bring in self id almost immediately.

I think there will be a nod to case by case safeguarding where, say, after a woman has been raped, threatened, intimidated or ogled by a man in a refuge then the authorities will have the right to bar him from the refuge, which they might do sometimes, if it doesn't hurt his feelings too much and she can prove she wasn't asking for it or lying obviously.

I have no faith in Labour, Lib Dems or Greens doing any proper safeguarding. I am deeply disappointed in them.

Yeah, I do admit that comment was not fair. I don’t spend a lot of time on this board so I don’t see the ins and outs of what is going on behind the scenes.

I haven’t read enough about the GRA so I am pretty clueless when it comes down to it. And that is one of the reasons for posting here (and to be a bit of a knob about voting Tory I will admit!) I think I need to widen my mind more, just very difficult with an upcoming election!

You are aware that women have lost their livelihoods just because they say males are distinct from females and it is impossible to change sex? And others now have a police file against them for ‘hate incidents’ for saying the same thing?

I think that you probably know very little about what the women who post here do to fight hard for suffering women, so I think that comment is possibly a bit misplaced.

Personally, I'd rather have a fair fight with all the terms clear. I suspect the Tories are going to win, and I am fully prepared to dig in and fight for every scrap of funding for women's services if that happens.

If the others get in, I'm going to have to fight people who are telling me they are funding women's services and telling me to button it, when they have done no such thing.

We get you don’t like the Conservatives, but how are Labour going to look after women and girls if they cannot identify them, if the statistics do not identify them? How are you going to argue for equal pay if there are no statistics to show how unequal it is? How are you going to show a policy has a disproportionately negative impact on women if identifying women is a hate crime?

@Poota well my initial question was how can anyone vote Tory considering the disgusting that are currently happening to women at their hands/policies. It sort of diverged from there.

At no point have I disagreed with anyone about women spaces being kept as women spaces. I just want to know why we aren’t fighting harder for the women already suffering, and voting Tory is just going to compound that.