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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

RollOnFriday - law firm writes report called "Only adults? Good practices in legal gender recognition for youth"

109 replies

somebrightmorning · 29/11/2019 19:04

RollOnFriday is a satirical online magazine for solicitors.

Dentons is a very very large law firm (but I'm not impressed because I remember them when they were merely Denton Hall....)

I commend this article from RollOnFriday to you:

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/dentons-campaigns-kids-switch-gender-without-parental-approval

and I see RollOnFriday also reported this:

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/lesbian-barrister-investigated-setting-lgb-group

You will like this extract:
"Critics of gender self-ID have warned that it will adversely impact women and children in many areas, including rape crisis centres, single-sex hospital wards, women’s sport and identification of discrimination. Dentons' 65-page report characterises their position in two sentences, as concerns which "normally come from women’s groups" about "female prisoners and female public toilets".

Dentons' report also describes critics of gender self-ID as 'TERFs', which began as an acronym for "trans-exclusionary radical feminists" and is understood by many of its targets as a misogynist slur.

When it was asked to comment on aspects of its report, Dentons initially offered up Atanas Politov, its Director for Pro Bono, for an interview. Then it asked for written questions in advance. When these were provided, the world's largest firm by headcount was unable to find anyone prepared to answer them, and gave a general statement instead."

My own position is that hormonal or surgical intervention on a 12 year old is prima facie child abuse and so I'm very surprised that Dentons published such a report.

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somebrightmorning · 30/11/2019 09:34

“Sorry, I'm a bit confused. The magazine is satirical, but if I understood it correctly, the articles you posted aren't?”
Correct, think Private Eye. You open it up for a cynical laugh but then they slot in important stuff.

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somebrightmorning · 30/11/2019 09:32

Roll on is sort of half gossip, half trade magazine.
The serious stuff has a bit of a Private Eye feel.
It is very widely read. It is funded by law firms recruitment ads I think.

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nauticant · 29/11/2019 21:37

From the Dentons article:

“This report was prepared on a pro bono basis", said Dentons

Sometimes this stuff writes itself.

Dollywilde · 29/11/2019 20:08

RollOnFriday is the ‘humour’ side of legal press but it does report on serious news with an eye to stuff the official press doesn’t tend to have. They often don’t qualm at calling out partners accused of sexual offences in the way other websites do.

I read that article and thought they were taking great pains to be balanced as they’ve often been called out about being GC before, particularly in the recent article about the barrister who has set up and LGB network specifically excluding the T.

I’m not wild about it but it does mean it hasn’t attracted the comments their other articles have in the past.

NonnyMouse1337 · 29/11/2019 20:05

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. The magazine is satirical, but if I understood it correctly, the articles you posted aren't?

Michelleoftheresistance · 29/11/2019 19:50

as much of the general public is not well informed about trans issues, and therefore misinterpretation can arise.

Absolutely.

Misinterpretations like 'there is no conflict with women's fundamental rights' and 'single sex provisions will be preserved'.

Disingenuous article. The general public 'not being properly informed' is a deliberate state maintained with great effort, Whittle and co have explained it at frequent intervals.

The whole 'you'd understand if you'd just educate yourself' is another misconception. People protesting and resisting this have educated themselves extensively, and their primary source has been TRAs, their videos, their articles, their own explanations of their ideology. They are educated: their answer is emphatically no. In fact the 'no' for many people followed becoming educated, when they'd previously been all 'yes' in happy ignorance. I was one of them.

Destroying women's rights, safeguarding, unethical medical practice on children, excluding women from women's spaces, all of this is wrong. It's easy to see.

PygmyHippoBob · 29/11/2019 19:49

ROF are pleasingly GC. See also:

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/sra-slammed-erasing-sex-its-inclusive-diversity-survey

And the coverage of SH vs Glinner.

Even their discussion forum is GC:

www.rollonfriday.com/discussion/why-are-libdems-doing-so-badly

somebrightmorning · 29/11/2019 19:30

And here we have Dentons' summary of the position in the UK

"Media / Public Sentiment
Unfortunately, NGOs noted that the current cultural climate in the UK is “trans-hostile”, noting that the debate on gender recognition had been picked up by the right-wing press. For this reason, NGOs in the UK agreed that using human stories and real trans experiences to campaign for legal change is effective but are currently unable to profile anyone due to the aggressive nature of the current debate. This is especially a concern in relation to young people as there are circumstances where they could be particularly vulnerable as a result of trans-hostile rhetoric. The NGOs observed that many mainstream and right-wing media outlets have given platforms to the voices of trans exclusionary radical feminists (“TERFs”), a term coined by a journalist at the Guardian, a national newspaper. These voices normally come from women’s groups who express concern over streamlining the process for legal gender recognition. Their concerns largely include female prisoners and female public toilets. The UK has been unable to avoid excessive coverage in the media. The NGOs observed that this has meant much of the debate has been confused and does not actually discuss the point at issue, being legal gender recognition, but rather intertwines it with discussions regarding medical surgeries. This is something which the NGOs in the UK are trying to counter-act, as they recognise it as a good practice for advocating trans rights.

ReflectionsThe major lesson NGOs drew from the UK experience is the importance of avoiding, where possible, excessive and negative press coverage. Largely as a result of such press coverage, legal gender recognition continues to be an incredibly divisive issue in the UK.Despite the government consultations, there are no current dates for introducing a self-determination model and further to this, it appears that, in the event of legislative reform, it is unlikely that transgender children under the age of 16 will have access to the process to change their legal gender. Unfortunately, the Scottish government and UK government have not yet put in place a plan for updating the Gender Recognition Act after their consultation and it is possible that this delay is due to the political uncertainty, busy nature of Parliament at this time and Brexit taking priority. There is currently no date set for the UK government response to the consultation or the draft legislation from the Scottish government"

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somebrightmorning · 29/11/2019 19:15

It seems the journalist is not exagerrating. Here are some quotes from Dentons' report:

"7. Tie your campaign to more popular reform
In Ireland, Denmark and Norway, changes to the law on legal gender recognition were put through at the same time as other more popular reforms such as marriage equality legislation. This provided a veil of protection, particularly in Ireland, where marriage equality was strongly supported, but gender identity remained a more difficult issue to win public support for.

  1. Avoid excessive press coverage and exposure Another technique which has been used to great effect is the limitation of press coverage and exposure. In certain countries, like the UK, information on legal gender recognition reforms has been misinterpreted in the mainstream media, and opposition has arisen as a result. The effects of this can be dangerous: two out of five transgender people experience hate crime each year in the UK, with young people the least likely to report incidents to the police.37 One in four trans people (26 per cent) directly experience transphobic abuse online each month.38 The UK Home Office have reported that hate crime in general has risen by 48 per cent between 2014 and 2017, with the number of recorded hate crimes and incidents based on sexual orientation rising by 70 percent over the same period.39Against this background, many believe that public campaigning has been detrimental to progress, as much of the general public is not well informed about trans issues, and therefore misinterpretation can arise. In Ireland, activists have directly lobbied individual politicians and tried to keep press coverage to a minimum in order to avoid this issue. Similarly, in Norway, campaigners developed strong ties with youth politicians, who then presented to the senior members of their parties on the changes that were needed. This technique was effective at persuading more senior politicians, as the changes were being suggested from within their own party rather than an external organisation. We also saw this technique in Denmark.
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