Prisoner denied GRS - court case.

grown-ups sat around pondering whether they should give a paedophile a so-called neovagina.
...a paedophile male. Whilst referring to him as 'she'.

I'm trying to read the judgment but I am actually finding it a bit triggering in the modern sense of the word.
'she wants all interventions in order to feminise her body'
"She" wouldn't need - or get - any interventions in order to "feminise" "her" body, if "she" actually was a woman. This person is a man, a 'he' (which is used in some other paras, confusingly).
By all means give paedophiles meds to suppress testosterone if they want it, but this idiocy has to stop. Ffs, grown-ups sat around pondering whether they should give a paedophile a so-called neovagina.

Interesting comments from James Barrett and Stuart Lorimer in there. Apparently we don't all have ineffable gender identities from which clinical decisions should flow via informed consent. Er... sometimes. Oh, and apparently paraphilia can be an issue. I thought this was heresy?

Is this only the case after conviction, I ask myself?

Because that's odd, when I remember this study:

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/gender-reassignment-5-years-of-referrals-in-oxfordshire/6B5F217162ABD9B3189F2EB82787034E

In which 2 of 38 male referrals for a gender identity service were gatekept out due to paedophilic motivations.

Judgment here

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2019/3565.html

He lost. Update and share token courtesy of Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3775190-Paedophile-prisoner-loses-bid-to-get-gender-reassignment-surgery-on-NHS

WIBU in supporting the need for surgery in this individual as long as removal of the penis is the first stage in transitioning?

It would be interesting if the treatment pathway started with that first.
It makes sense medically, from what I can tell - orchiectomy means less need for anti-androgens, the penis isn't reduced so the neovaginal canal is easier to construct, and the feminisation and/or breast augmentation can be done at a later date.

I don't agree that dysphoric people should be carved up and frankly I'd be much happier with them receiving psychiatric care in the same was as someone with BIID would be.

But it's interesting that so few men want their male genitals removed or altered, given that the surgery has been available for decades now.

It would also make detransitioning straightforward - the man would still look like a man at that point, he would just have altered genitals, which nobody would be able to see. So if he was unhappy after his transition, as many are, he could return to "living as a man" except obviously without his male genitals.

Is the obsession with hair and boobs more about exhibitionism? (Seeing as we mentioned a certain NUS flasher)

I know this may not be a popular perspective but I'd like to see all pedophiles put to death. I don't care what sex they are, their sexual orientation, or what gender they claim to be. Through their actions they have at least in part destroyed or at least severely damaged any child or children they abused. Why should these people be given anything at all? In what way do they deserve dignity, care, or thought about their safety? Maybe they should have fucking thought of that before they touched a child.

While my position likely won't be widely held (many are against execution for any reason) but is the position I am entitled to based on the trauma my childhood experiences have caused me for the duration of my existence thus far. I don't need/have a responsibility to be nice I don't need to consider pedophile's feelings, their well-being, or anything about them. The moment I was touched was the moment that all pedophiles forfeited their humanity in my eyes i.e. they aren't human or animals to me they are garbage to be destroyed and discarded.

I was coerced/forced to speak lies to my abuser during the acts; I refuse to speak lies to make other people feel better at my expense.

Males are male regardless of how they present; regardless of the crime(s) they belong in male prisons and do not deserve to get any type of reconstructive or cosmetic or gender-affirming surgery on the public's dime.

You a male that wants to transition? Great, don't break the law by raping children or women and don't expect to be prioritized in healthcare for something that has been determined to not be a medical issue.

The point with people like Heron is that, like many trans people, you can’t tell they’re trans

The fucking delusion on this.

Meanwhile, political parties are tripping over themselves to out-woke each other on gender identity politics, and the police record offenders' sex according to their preference, because someone told them that a female brain can accidentally grow male limbs.
Fuck this world.

I remember when there were threads about such organisations as action for trans health, who were being called to give evidence to government that amongst their calls for free hair removal, there was always An obsession with prisons.

Yeah, I believe Jess Bradley (Action for Trans Health), one of the privileged few who were invited to give evidence to Maria Miller's shitshow of an inquiry, called for all trans prisoners to be released.
Where is they now, I wonder? (Apologies if wrong pronouns)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3320513-Jess-Bradley-first-transgender-student-officer-suspended-after-flashing-photos

LangCleg I couldn't remember who was looking for that thread

I bookmarked the archive at the time but it is always worth doing a search of the usual down-the-back-of-the-sofa sites if you know the Twitter handle of the exile,
eg. archive.ph/search/?q=%40jennyrossity

Unfortunately Search does not work for archived Threadreader app pages because the urls do not contain the Twitter handle. (If Twitter suspends someone's account then all the tweets are deleted from an original Threadreader app page. I think Threader app tweets are retained but I would not swear to it.)

I would really encourage people to archive good Twitter threads - if you put the full url into the Search you can check if a thread has already been archived already

That thread by Jenny is a real shocker

You would think that somebody representing the rights of prisoners would be up in arms about that programme . . . it is surely an abuse of human rights for prisoners to be subjected to medical treatment that will lead many of them to crave, how did the QC for the NHS put it? "major, irreversible surgery which may destroy existing parts of a patient's body, personality and sexuality"

Maybe trans rights organisations are not interested in condemning the practice because they would then need to acknowledge that gender dysphoria has been medically induced by hormone blockers, suggesting that it is/can be (whispers) an "illness", iatrogenic in this case?

Obviously, nobody gives a flying f&ck about the impact on women and children of paedophiles and other sex offenders being subjected to medically-induced "transition" and then the Prison Service scooting them out into the Community.

It was mentioned in a different thread (by Jenny again I think) that the programme was run as a pilot and nobody told the Probation Service. So there was no monitoring of whether they were continuing to take their meds, which was a condition of release.

Thanks Mole, I missed that at the time

blimey o'reilly

and that's all I can muster about that at the moment

Mole - thank you, thank you, thank you. I've been searching in vain for that since Jenny got suspended from the Twatter hellsite. So fucking disturbing.

I remember when there were threads about such organisations as action for trans health, who were being called to give evidence to government that amongst their calls for free hair removal, there was always An obsession with prisons. This ranged from book donation to volunteers to sitting on committees deciding policy.

They seem to be quiet atm, but there have been issues with some of the people involved.

So I suppose it is not surprising that there are problems in prisons. The question is how far thy go.

Thanks for posting that Mole.
Sickening.

That Twitter thread is really disturbing.

I can't even think of how to respond to that info.

Archived Jenny Rossity Twitter thread about anti-androgens for sex-offenders experiment in UK Prisons:

archive.md/3T3TF

Tweets by @ jennyrossity 27 Nov 2018

Earlier Peter Tatchell disingenuously defended women’s rights by telling us we’re wrong to fear transwomen. In general I agree, but we should be afraid that in a cohort of 120 sex offenders given anti-androgens in prison almost half then decided to transition.

And we should be extremely worried that in order to ease prison over-crowding the government has suggested widening that cohort to 1,500 sex offenders in order to release them. Source:
www.express.co.uk/news/politics/944275/sexual-offender-chemical-castration-ministry-justice-worboys

A side effect of anti-androgens is that they cause those taking them to grow breasts. We have treated sex offenders with anti-androgens since 2007:
insidetime.org/download/publications/prison_related/Use-of-Med-to-treat-SexOff_PSJ176.pdf

(@ thefishgod Nov 27 Replying to @ jennyrossity
Let me get this right: the government are creating trans prisoners?)

Then these sex offenders gets an idea to exploit hard won trans rights to get themselves transferred to a women’s prison and access victims more easily. In evidence to Parliament GIDs say they cannot cope with the sheer amount of referrals from prison:
data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/women-and-equalities-committee/transgender-equality/written/19532.html

I discovered this because I looked at the case of trans sex offenders Jacinta Brooks and Carrie Cooper and thought: these are not my nice trans friends. This is something else entirely. They both had previous for paedophilia and so I looked into how sex offenders were treated.

The harm this cohort of violent sex offenders could cause to women and girls and also to the trans community should not be underestimated. Surgeons do not want to transition these patients. They see it as conflicting with their duty to do no harm.

From GIDs "Another persistent source of difficulty is NHS rules require patient files to be kept for at least 30 years whilst the GRA requires us to destroy any records which link the patient’s old identity with the new identity. It's unclear which legislation takes precedence."

I wish this weren’t true, but it is & it’s up to the decent trans community & women to stand together & oppose it, not bury our heads in the sand & pretend it’s not happening. Stonewall want acceptance without exception. I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t take exception to this.

This is a national scandal on a par with the PIE scandal.

We know 120 prisoners have been given anti-androgens across 6 sex offender specific prisons. Data from 4 revealed that of that cohort 34 have now transitioned:
www.pressreader.com/uk/the-mail-on-sunday/20180603/281728385203217

Yes. The anti-androgens help them treat the compulsive behaviour that then allows for meaningful psychiatric interventions. I doubt it was their intention but it is often the end result.

(@ SalwayBrewer Nov 27 Replying to @ jennyrossity
Is that history destruction required by the GRA correct? No offence meant.)

Replying to @ SalwayBrewer
What I have found is that the prison service will log a new and old name together so it is recorded somewhere. Who has access to that info I don’t know. I am assuming it’s on the criminal record fullstop so hopefully there would still be a way to connect past and future crimes.

Replying to @ SalwayBrewer
I don’t know whether GIDs are correct about that NHS record destruction they would know more than me about that and I haven’t double checked that. Pls feel free to though. I don’t mind at all.

(@ sarahstuartxx Nov 27 Replying to @ jennyrossity
There is no proof, as I understand it, that this treatment stops offending behaviour.)

Replying to @ sarahstuartxx
Correct. ESP as it relies on self medication. There is evidence they flog it on the dark web to earn money.

(@ PocketHanky Nov 27 Replying to @ jennyrossity
This is a very interesting thread, but are you sure about this bit? I thought the anti-androgens stopped the production of testosterone, but it was the oestrogen that caused the breast growth)

Replying to @ PocketHanky
See marked section:
insidetime.org/download/publications/prison_related/Use-of-Med-to-treat-SexOff_PSJ176.pdf

Indeed.

What does this gobbledygook even mean?

It means that trans, as provided by self-ID, is simply an access-all-areas pass, plus VIP privileges, with no consequences whatsoever for the pass holder.

Yy @erishkigal it's incomprehensible - perhaps deliberately so. Anything that lacks a coherent definition is impossible to discuss.

That does not mean that transwomen should be allowed in women's prisons. It means that transwomen should not be treated less favourably than other male-bodied prisoners.

This.

The majority of trans people don’t transition, of those that do,

What does this gobbledygook even mean?

What is this mysterious "transition", if it doesn't mean surgery, and most trans people don't do it?

When government and other policy makers use transition to mean the act of calling oneself trans?

KK is utter filth and should suffer til his last breath.
Even his parents will be glad he's dead.

How the fuck does his lawyer sleep at night?

Brilliant post

we definitely need to campaign on behalf of women in prisons. They are extremely vulnerable too and don't have any means of being heard.

One of, if not the most, vulnerable populations.