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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help! FOI request - trans guidance in NHS in South West

30 replies

anotherFOIrequester · 28/11/2019 21:36

Inspired by our Welsh FOI-requesting sister, I have started submitting my own, focusing on guidance on trans issues in the NHS:

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/guidance_on_supporting_trans_peo

As it turns out, the guidance and the agenda of the meeting at which it was presented are publicly available here:

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_5Nov19_item6.4.pdf

Now that I have read the guidance, the second FOI question (has this guidance been formally adopted?) is even more important. If the local NHS CCG (Clinical Commissioning Group) adopts this guidance it will have a negative effect on women, children and young people.

If you're in Bristol, North Somerset or South Gloucestershire please have a look and if you agree, ask them not to adopt it:

[email protected]

From the meeting agenda:

Risk and Assurance:
No specific risk implications

How does this impact on Equality & diversity:
The toolkit has been produced in partnership with a range of
equalities groups and professionals, and aims to reduce inequalities
and challenge the discrimination trans people face.

No mention of women and our needs here or anywhere in the guidance itself. Any disagreement with eg a male on a female ward is framed purely and only as 'transphobia' with no consideration of the needs of female patients or any trauma following male violence they may have:

'Forcing a trans person to use a single-sex ward that does not conform to their gender identity is likely to have a catastrophic effect on their emotional wellbeing. The needs of the patient need to be given priority.'

'Providing education to other service users in a ward to prevent ignorant or transphobic comments is, if succesful, a better solution than having to protect or isolate the trans service user'.

There are many quotes from (of course) Stonewall, and also from the 2016 Parliamentary Inquiry - without any acknowledgement of the way the ground has shifted since then, or of the much more recent PI into the enforcement of EA2010.

It suggests ways to collect data on people's gender identities but does not suggest recording people's sex.

It recommends Mermaids.

There's more but it's been a long day - will post more when I have a chance but please read this and if you're in the area, write to the CCG to explain the problems. Hoping the legal, medical and scientific minds of MN will look at this...

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Jux · 23/01/2020 14:43

Written to my Exeter trust.

anotherFOIrequester · 02/01/2020 11:43

Thanks Water. Have started a new thread in order to pull all the info together and make it explicit that women in these areas need to act now:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3784009-Are-you-in-Devon-Bristol-North-Somerset-or-South-Gloucestershire-Tell-NHS-your-view-on-trans-guidelines-NOW?watched=1

Happy New Year!

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severnboring · 30/12/2019 20:25

Writing email now!

Watermonster · 30/12/2019 18:45

and the delivering same sex wards NHS policy

improvement.nhs.uk/documents/6005/Delivering_same_sex_accommodation_sep2019.pdf

Watermonster · 30/12/2019 18:21

The CCG has now agreed to do an impact assessment for impact on women and other protected groups -but it will probably be lead by the same staff that decided it wasn't necessary when they recommended it to their board. I can see why they are reluctant- the trans guidance appears to contradict safeguarding policy- here is relevant info:

NHS England (who commission the CCG) safeguarding advice given to staff

www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/adult-pocket-guide.pdf

and the CCG's own policy

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/BNSSG_Safeguarding_Policy.pdf

anotherFOIrequester · 23/12/2019 10:39

I despair too.

CM now saying that CM can breastfeed: mobile.twitter.com/CherylMorgan/status/1208712963911245824

Tell me again that AGP doesn't exist.

Fetishisher of women's bodies who abuses women who dare to argue writes NHS policy that will negatively affect women needing healthcare for their women's bodies.

And we're the bad ones 'filled with hate' for seeing what's in front of us.

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Cuntysnark · 23/12/2019 08:37

I despair.

anotherFOIrequester · 22/12/2019 18:33

Quickly to add - I really am Xmas-tasks-addled today...

The minutes say that the lead writer of the guidance is Cheryl Morgan, a TW.
CM has called women the four letter t word etc.

So, this isn't just a case of a pro trans org writing guidance, it's an individual with a record of abusive language towards women writing guidance that will affect women.

Angry
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anotherFOIrequester · 22/12/2019 18:17

Had the FOI reply - yes they have adopted this guidance, they are editing over next few weeks/months. They sent the meeting minutes.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/guidance_on_supporting_trans_peo?nocache=incoming-1490631#incoming-1490631

bnssgccg.nhs.uk/library/governing-body-paper-3-december-2019-item-3/

How have you all got on with getting responses from the CCG, MPs, Healthwatch etc?

Will pick this up again after Xmas.

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anotherFOIrequester · 19/12/2019 13:49

FOIrequester Thank you! And thanks for all your hard work. You're an inspiration! Will go to that thread.

This explains an awful lot about what's happening in/around Bristol:

medium.com/@elsaegret/stitch-up-bristol-fashion-f1eb298e28da

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FOIrequester · 18/12/2019 18:02

I've finally had a reply to my FOI request to the NHS about their single sex accommodation guidance. I made the request on 2nd October, and after a few gentle reminders they've finally responded.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/equality_impact_assessment_for_d_2#incoming-1488421

I've posted about it on this thread.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3705528-New-NHS-guidance-on-same-sex-accommodation

anotherFOIrequester · 14/12/2019 13:23

Meant to add - no equality impact assessment or risk assessment has been done on this Bristol/Glos/Som NHS guidance either.

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anotherFOIrequester · 14/12/2019 10:55

Yes, we should all write to our MPs now we know who they are.

agentnully it really makes me so angry that you and so many other women in a similar position are ignored.

The Welsh reference was about a wonderful poster on here who asked for the equality impact assessment carried out on Welsh government trans guidance (not NHS specifically). They hadn't done one! They then basically said 'the dog ate it'... I'll try and find the thread.

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agentnully · 13/12/2019 23:09

I don't get this "trauma" they'd have. If they were born men and lived their earlier lives as boys/men, regardless of how they want to identify now, it doesn't make sense to me as they'd know what to expect and wouldn't be as traumatised by the sight of a penis like a woman who had suffered sexual trauma would.

I've been having ongoing counseling for 15+ years due to abuse. Having a man in the same ward as me would be damaging to my mental health and not just my feelings (as I'd expect would happen to a man wanting to "be a woman").

There's a HUGE difference between having your feelings hurt and being traumatised.

Sorry if this is the wrong place but the thought of being put in this position is freaking me out.

Also, could someone please link the Welsh guidance mentioned by the OP and help me out with what I need to do to help stop this?

Thanks, and sorry I'm a bit dim about all this.

Watermonster · 13/12/2019 21:33

I am in the area too and will contact them. Please all contact your MP as well- it's the perfect time to send a quick email to say you are concerned about this / self ID,/ single sex spaces / GRA as they are adjusting to the the election result.

anotherFOIrequester · 13/12/2019 10:58

Hi Hollygaggles babynewt and Kit19 !

Really glad you are all writing to the CCG.
Great idea to write to the local Healthwatch Kit - looks like they have already been captured: www.diversitytrust.org.uk/2018/05/trans-health-research-report-launched/

That makes it all the more important to contact them imo.

I don't have any information on timescale.
Please ask them!

Thank you all and please keep us updated here.

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Kit19 · 13/12/2019 08:45

I’m in North Somerset too! Will contact CCG - also healthwatch as the patients voice

babynewt · 13/12/2019 08:36

Im in this area. are there timescales of when they propose to do this?

Hollygaggles · 13/12/2019 01:36

Oh blimey I've only just seen this "toolkit". I'm in North Somerset and will be on the case. Thanks for the heads up.

anotherFOIrequester · 12/12/2019 11:50

Bloody hell @TobyandLottiesmum. I spent several days in hospital after routine surgery complications when I was 20, unable to eat or sleep and not really even knowing who I was by the end of it. It was bad enough on a female-only ward, I am horrified imagining what it would have been like to have a male there. There was hardly ever a nurse around, eg I couldn't even get to the toilet.

Here's the latest reponse - NB this is not FOI response but email I sent separately asking the CCG not to adopt the guidance:

''I will aim to come back to you over the next couple of days. I have spoken to one or two staff internally and I have emailed SARI who produced the document around the process of compiling the report for some assurance.

Thank you for your patience.''

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TobyandLottiesmum · 01/12/2019 10:45

From FOI requests to Royal Bolton and Salford Royal. Asking different questions but apparent that their are no definitive single sex wards

Help! FOI request - trans guidance in NHS in South West
Help! FOI request - trans guidance in NHS in South West
anotherFOIrequester · 29/11/2019 19:42

And request that we take into consideration the views of the CCG LGBT+ staff network who play a vital role in informing the organisation. Hmm

If you're in Bristol, North Somerset or South Gloucestershire please conatct the CCG about this - perhaps we can get in there before anti-woman guidance is adopted.

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anotherFOIrequester · 29/11/2019 19:35

Wow, that was a quick reply:

Dear anotherFOIrequester,

Our customer service team kindly forwarded your email. Although I was not in attendance at the Governing Body Meeting, the document has been shared with me, this document is still in draft and the CCG is awaiting a revised version from the authors. I will of course share your concerns with colleagues. And request that we take into consideration the views of the CCG LGBT+ staff network who play a vital role in informing the organisation.

Thank you again for your email and I will share your concerns today and offer some feedback at the earliest opportunity.

Regards

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anotherFOIrequester · 29/11/2019 14:50

OhHolyJesus please do - I suspect similar organisations are doing the same thing all over the country.

I didn't actually need to FOI the guidance itself I realised after I sent it out - I suggest going to your CCG website and searching first, unlike me :)

But the part of the FOI that they do need to answer is whether they adopted it or not.

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