Freedom of speech at school?

MrsNoMopp

Yes, exactly.

Excluding a transgender person is akin to excluding based on ethnicity or race.

No. Excluding a transwoman from women's spaces is akin to excluding a blacked-up white person from black people's spaces.

"Oh suddenly it's sex and not gender"

😂 Oh dear....

Ever heard of the Sex Discrimination Act 1975?

Why should the debating society need the school LGBT society to give permission for this? If the LGBT society gets to veto the debating society, does the debating society get to tell the LGBT society which discussions they can't have?

Another thought is that in the LGBT society, there could well be lesbians who sense their rights are being eroded by the trans lobby.

It has always been about sex not gender for us. Knock yourselves out with your all genders or non. We don't care

Indeed.

Oh suddenly it's sex and not gender

Welcome to mumsnet. It has always been about sex not gender for us. Knock yourselves out with your all genders or non. We don't care.
We are interested in women's sex based rights. Like the right to play competitive sport against other women. 🤷‍♀️

Velveteenfruitbowl I'm sorry if I caused any offence, but the only time I have ever heard women saying their hormones affect their critical thinking, is during menopause.

I'm sorry if that hasn't been the case for you - that sounds awful, but I have genuinely never had this issue, and never heard friends, family or other women complain about it.

There are always medical exceptions to general situations, but I stand by my assertion that most teenage girls do not have their critical thinking impaired by hormones. I went to an all-girls school which was next door to an all-boys school, and the girls' school consistently outperformed the boys at GCSE and A-Level. Which leads me to believe that teenage girls' critical thinking and intelligence are not significantly affected by their hormones.

I'd be interested to hear what other women's experiences are though.

outtheresomewhere do you not understand the difference between sex and gender? no wonder you are confused

sex- refers to biological reality, in mammals, most species are sexually dimorphic, that is the females (who are capable of bearing young) are different in various ways from the males (who produce sperm)- in humans males are on the whole bigger and heavier, more muscular than females. For this reason in activities where competition is based on physical attributes (like sport) for reasons of fairness, we segregate by sex

gender- refers to cultural artefacts such as clothing, grooming practices, mannerisms or preferences that in any one place or time are associated with one sex or another. These are NOT linked to any biological reality. There is no reason to limit anyone's participation in anything based on their gender expression

hth

Oh suddenly it's sex and not gender

What?

Excluding a transgender person is akin to excluding based on ethnicity or race

So shockingly racist and seemingly ok about it. Awful.

@littlecabbage mine do Not all women cope as well with their hormones as you do apparently. The constant insistence that female hormones don’t affect ones faculties may be why I’ve found it so difficult to find a doctor who will help me.

@Goosefoot what is SSM? Islam (in particular when it comes to women’s rights) is another one to add to your list.

Eh? Sports is sex segregated in the UK, and in the Uk there is no legal basis for gender segregation. Which might be a problem for people whose gender identity is very at odds with their sex.

Oh suddenly it's sex and not gender. Whatever it takes to win your anti trans 'debate'.
Ignorance or Racism are never a defence.

It seems a sensible topic...should transgender people have their own category. It's basically asking if the current sex/disability categorisation system should be extended, so it's focussing on why the current system might not work for transgender people which seems compassionate and practical. Not sure why OP was objecting? Did I miss some further explanation?

No, more akin to excluding on the basis of sex or age or lack of qualification.

Excellent reply to nonsense.

Racist people always have to join the debate...

Outofsomewhere, do you ever wonder why sports are divided by sex? Then have you thought of any good reason to change those categories?

Debating whether to exclude a minority group from a specific sport due to their chosen gender is purely discrimination.

No-one is excluding them from any sport. But they need to be in the correct category for their biological sex, so as not to exclude women (the real, science-based kind).

'Excluding a transgender person is akin to excluding based on ethnicity or race.'

And so the opposition would argue, and the proposition would bring in evidence to show why it is very different indeed.

And then the audience could make up their mind based on the quality of the arguments.
Funny how one side is so scared of this.

I can see the teacher doesn't want to affect anyone in a difficult period of their lives

But that said the debate is not on whether trans people exist or not

I think it would be a good debate for yp

I doubt our local school would allow such a debate. They are 100% supportive of all their students and promote the importance of inclusion. Debating whether to exclude a minority group from a specific sport due to their chosen gender is purely discrimination. Excluding a transgender person is akin to excluding based on ethnicity or race.

Ringdonna that is very insulting to the intelligence of many teenagers, and the comment about "girl's hormones" (sic) is downright sexist. Are you implying that their hormones somehow impede their critical thinking?

I disagree that it's not a suitable topic - my dd does debating at school and the way it works is that most of the time it is a topic they don't know anything about and they go off and research it, - one of the main benefits she is getting on it is that she's not just sharpening her arguing skills, she's also becoming better informed about all sides of a wide range of topics.
It doesn't matter whether you have developed your independent thinking or just follow your parents, because you don't get to choose which side you argue and there is no assumption that what you are saying is what you actually believe.
It's more that they should only be doing it if the head is prepared to stick up for them, repeat to anyone trying to throw mud that the nature of debating is exploring a subject from all sides and stamp down hard on any bullying by the LGBT society should it arise, imo.