There seems to be something very wrong in canada

The OP has made an excellent point. Canada praises itself for its wokeness as it snuffs out women's rights to self-definition and single sex spaces. Meanwhile, it has some not-so-woke dirty secrets in its treatment of indiginous people. But Canada has never been immune to racism, any more than Mr. Justin Blackface Trudeau is. Just one example: Canada's internment camps for its Japanese citizens during World War II.

It took them years before they looked into the prostituted women murdered by Gary Ridgeway, the Green River killer because prostituted women are considered disposable by both the serial killers and law enforcement.
Regarding the transgender issue in Canada and this claim: You're pushing it right there. In your opinion anything that benefits trans people, or is pro-trans is anti-women. Myself and many other women don't see it that way. I see being tolerant of others, and including trans women as women, as a way forward for everyone.

The transgender advocacy organization have declared women's right to be anti-trans. I respectfully suggest that your statement has the facts wrong way round.
#No debate was tried first, and when women refused to submit the demonization of Feminists came next and now all women's rights are condemned.

The women who were murdered were not valued by those paid to protect them. It is that, rather than the presence of Pickton, that shows up the woman’s rights issue.

But no one has said there isn't a women's rights issue, what they have said is that it's being presented as being a matter of directly targeting women because they are First Nations. And it isn't about "defending Canada" it's about being accurate about what happened.

For example - The police did not look into those murders the way they should have. This seems to have been in part directly about not caring much about prostitutes. But the other thing that happened was that although there was a pattern that indicated a serial killer might be at work, that was not picked up because it was just accepted that women working on the street selling sex often went missing and were at high risk. Which is true, but it blinded the police to what was really going on even though some other people tried to bring it to their attention.

But this story consistently is presented as being about indigenous women, about being specifically indifferent to them, with the implication that white women who were in the same position would not have been ignored.

The case of sterilisation is the same problem. The article says they are targeting native women, and the impression is that this is only because of heir ethnicity, it is some kind of desire to stop them from reproducing. There is also a sense that this might be an organised state led initiative. They are very much playing on memories of the residential school system, that's what is brought to mind for any Canadian reading this.

But if what is really going on is that you have a group of women with serious problems, addiction mainly, affecting their kids who are being born into addiction and removed, and that individual doctors or social workers are trying to act to protect the kids (and maybe in some sense the women too who suffer terribly having their children removed) this is still a problem, but a different one. It's not state organised or led, it's not about trying to eliminate First Nations people. It's about trying to respond to poverty and addiction and individuals overstepping in an attempt to do that. It raises the question of why some ethnic groups are over-represented in this population.

It's not trying to deflect blame to ask that problems like these be understood and presented accurately, that journalists ask the relevant questions. It's not right to let on that this is happening exclusively to indigenous women if that is not what is going on. It's not right to completely fail to point out this is something that mainly affects women in poverty, or with serious addictions, or even mental health problems. And any solutions or initiatives to help these situations are not going to be effective if they aren't directed toward the real causes of this specific problem.

And maybe it is not surprising if people see sterilisation as a state organised form of genocide as more morally reprehensible than individual practitioners using sterilisation in very hard cases to try and prevent a lot of terrible suffering of infants and children. That doesn't mean the latter is good and I hope adults will be aware that good intentions can result in very bad practices, but moral nuance is not a bad thing.

How people see pointing this out as being some kind of apologetic I do not understand.

A couple of comments.

I don't think being a First Nation person gives you the right to shut down all conversations on this subject.

One member from an ethnic group is not representative, as everyone in that group with have different points of view.

Two-spirit is only an element of SOME indigenous cultures in Canada, not all of them.

And for another poster, its not just Canadians who don't like their country being criticised by visitors. Nobody likes outsiders criticising their country, that's basic human nature.

Canada is anti-woman. As is every other country on Earth. Forget randoms on MN. The screenshots above are of actual Canadian women. Why don’t they matter?

In the UK, Karen White was removed from the female estate after raping women there.

In Canada, this alleged rapist remained while the victim was moved to solitary, WTF!!

People can see TWAW but cannot see these marginalised, vulnerable women as even human.

(Sorry OP I’ve drifted off topic rather, this is close to my heart)

Because Canada is accepting of trans people and makes efforts to include them, it means Canada is anti-women.

Thanks, hulkspurplepants, very neat summation.

I am talking about Canada not actually being as woman friendly as it claims (as per beardeds post).

You're pushing it right there. In your opinion anything that benefits trans people, or is pro-trans is anti-women. Myself and many other women don't see it that way. I see being tolerant of others, and including trans women as women, as a way forward for everyone.

In regards to FN. It's complicated for a variety of reasons. It's not just a white Canadian vs. FN thing, there are also issues within the Nations themselves that need to be addressed, and in order to do that, they will have to open themselves up to the wider nation, simply because the resources to address the rampant abuse & drug use aren't within the reserves themselves.

Many nations have lost their history, and have had Christianity and its values forced on them. We lost our women's councils and our embrace of two-spirited people. We need to get these back.

Personally I think the Truth and Reconciliation Committee is a step forward. We need to be honest about the past in order to move forward.

Greater involvement of the various tribal councils and the Assembly of First Nations in Parliamentary decisions would be another way forward.

That's just from the outside. There's lots to be done from the inside as well.

Yes, that is a serious issue. But it's not just a Canadian one. Across the world police tend to ignore issues faced by marginalized women, miniorities and LGBTQ.

To suggest this is purely a sign that something is wrong in Canada is pretty disingenuous.

Nobody is suggesting these problems are isolated to Canada. However, as an outsider, Canada is often held up by the Woke as an example of a wonder, progressive democracy, so much better than the USA, for example. When in reality, it has deeply ingrained issues with racism and sexism, just like every other country on the planet. Again, racism and sexism are not unique to Canada, but it's useful for outsiders (like women in the UK) to look at Canada, look at it's policies, and see where we might be headed.

If women elsewhere want an idea of the consequences of Governments implementing a policy of self-ID, they need only to look at Canada. Kimblerly Nixon began suing Vancouver Rape Relief in 1995- that's YEARS before any of this stuff started to really come to a head in the UK. And the targeting and harassment of VRR hasn't let up since then- they've had their funding cut (thanks to Morgane Oger), and had dead animals nailed to their property, all because they had the cheek to not give a transwoman what they wanted, because they didn't think it was in the interests of the women they're supposed to be helping.

And then you have Yaniv. Multiple human rights complaints against lone working women from an ethnic minority because they didn't want to touch Yaniv's genitals. Yaniv was initially granted anonymity by the BC Human Right's tribunal, and that was only lifted because Yaniv fucked it all up for Yanivsself by effectively outing Yanivsself on Twitter. It was only at that point that Yaniv's racism and paedophilia were exposed.

Canada's policies and what they have allowed to flourish in their country are a warning to us all.

I don’t think many British citizens would experience the levels of outrage demonstrated on this thread if they found some Canadians commenting on something shitty that happened in the UK

I think the issue of a bunch of non Indigenous British people, or even a group of non-Indigenous Canadians, commenting on my people's issues, without having the slightest clue about the history or the context, or what life is like on the reserves or for First Nations people, upsetting yes.

I especially dislike my peoples issues being co-opted as a way of pushing their anti-trans agenda.

I think its hypocritical to make it sound like it's purely a Canadian issue.

Yes, I don’t think many British citizens would experience the levels of outrage demonstrated on this thread if they found some Canadians commenting on something shitty that happened in the UK

It’s very interesting. And explains a bit about how they got so far down the trans rabbit hole I think

Trudeau is the perfect leader for this attitude-woke in public and blacks up for fun

The point to be made is that the Canadian police knew there was a serial killer on the loose in Vancouver targeting these women

Yes, that is a serious issue. But it's not just a Canadian one. Across the world police tend to ignore issues faced by marginalized women, miniorities and LGBTQ.

To suggest this is purely a sign that something is wrong in Canada is pretty disingenuous.

Kind of like a much more polite version of how Scots react to being assumed to be English.

(I'm imagining the Canadian version involves less swearing.)

I think the point to be made about Robert Pickton isn’t so much that he was a serial killer who targeted prostituted women, many of whom were FN. I mean, that’s a serial killer for you.

The point to be made is that the Canadian police knew there was a serial killer on the loose in Vancouver targeting these women- they were warned by other women who’d had lucky escapes and social workers who saw their service users vanishing- and they made very little effort to catch him, through incompetence or laziness or corruption (Pickton had a kind of dive bar/ night club on his property that some police frequented).

The women who were murdered were not valued by those paid to protect them. It is that, rather than the presence of Pickton, that shows up the woman’s rights issue.

@Coyoacan "Sixties Scoop" is the official term used in the current compensation case.

And for the record, I'm British, but I have family and have spent time living/working in Canada (as well as the US, Asia and a few others). In my experience, they only really care if you lump them in with Americans. Worst. Insult. Possible.

Sorry to bother but could you possibly excise the word T**F or failing that , delete the post , many thanks

You are going to get deleted again. You can't use some of those terms on this site.

As to that, whatever, I think it's very sad that Mumsnet continues to allow that kind of hatred a platform.

I absolutely support women's bodily autonomy, and I also believe that women should know what options are available to them, including sterilization. I see no issues with a social worker suggesting it, as long as it's left at suggesting and not in any way forced.

I've been involved in the system and I wish it was as easy as letting the courts decide and holding the men accountable for rape. If it was that fucking easy, everything would be solved and life would be lovely.

I'm a realist and I know that these issues are not black and white.

Remember the Michael Moore film about guns? I remember him saying that Canada has almost as many per capita as America, and yet somehow much lower rates of people using them to murder each other.

I'm inclined to think that it's America rather than Canada that's the exception to the rule there though.