Does MN have a problem with trans people? **MNHQ edited title as OP has apologised for 'accusatory' tone**

@Eyezswideshut- can we have a link to the document? It’s not much use without.

the only relevant study I can find was in Sweden 2011 and included suicide as a violent crime

the Djehne study? No it didn't.

60 of the 125 transgender prisoners known to be in prison in England and Wales are convicted sex offenders

Of the 60 serving time for sexual offences:

27 were convicted of rape (plus a further five of attempted rape)
13 were convicted of possessing, distributing or making indecent images of children
13 were convicted of sexual assault or attempted sexual assault
Nine were convicted of causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity
Seven were convicted of sexual activity with a child
Seven were convicted of indecent assault or gross indecency

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42221629

This is from an author of one study:

Which particular research do you want links to?

The only relevant statistics would be of violent crime and rape so if you have proof of those, provide them as it would put some facts in the argument.

Lots of statistics here:

medium.com/@evastanford/transwomen-sexual-offenders-a-closer-look-6c507d9e2414

Eyez you are showing a (sadly very common) complete misunderstanding of risk and probability. It is tough to extrapolate from abstract concepts like risk to tangible strategies. ( I refrain from mentioning the Monty Hall problem)

Suffice it to say it's not as simple as saying "a class of people, as a class, are higher risk, therefore each individual in that class is a higher risk".

Can people actually post links to this research please because the only relevant study I can find was in Sweden 2011 and included suicide as a violent crime. So transwomen who tried to or successfully committed suicide were counted as violent criminals...

My goldfish is transphobic..

The fucking bastard.

one that looked at the number of trans women in prison but didnt mention what they were there for.

nearly half of all transwomen are in prison for sexual offences, compared to 13% of other male prisoners.

Eyezwideshut, what on earth is now different about DD's (male) classmate now that he has said he is a girl?

Forget comparing one abstract population with another. What is there about this child now that would make his presence less embarrassing, less invasive, less triggering, in the girls' loos and changing rooms, than a few weeks ago?

A few weeks back, he was attending school as a boy and expected to use the boys' facilities. That wasn't a slur on his character or an accusation of being a rapist but a perfectly normal expectation.

Nothing material has changed since then.

Seem to be threads constantly on the issue of trans

This is the 'women's rights' board and is, perhaps, the single biggest issue which faces women at this time in history.

Lots of people have joined Mumsnet to discuss, precisely, this issue; one of the few arenas in which such discussion is permitted - because it isn't virtually everywhere else.

As for the rest of your post - there are lots of threads - why don't you go through the board and read some of them.........

Eyezswideshut

We have more transwomen murders in jail right now than people who have been murdered for being trans.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Thread's descended to Monty Python levels, I see. Lemon had already cocked it up, Eyez - no need to come in and help.

Research has also proven that transwomen have exactly the same patterns of crime as men.

The only relevant statistics would be of violent crime and rape so if you have proof of those, provide them as it would put some facts in the argument.

I know a lot of trans people are poor so things like stealing,prostitution and drug related offences would probably be around the same rates as anyone who is poor. Those statistics will only go to show that they are mistreated by society. Not a danger. I'm saying this because I came across an article earlier which compared rates of all crime in trans women to violent crime in males and one that looked at the number of trans women in prison but didnt mention what they were there for.

It seems the only reason people think they are dangerous is because they were born male. Nothing other than that.

You finally seem to have understood. Transwomen were born male. They commit crimes, including violent and sexual crimes at the same rate as other males.

Treating a transwoman as a man isn't taking away rights.

What rights are men missing Lemon?

Talking brilliant post. Yes, that. Exactly that.

It seems the only reason people think they are dangerous is because they were born male. Nothing other than that. If being male is such a risk factor for rape and violence then as a society, we shouldnt leave any men with children because we cant tell when they will lose control and rape or kill them.

We have safeguarding in place to protect from men who want to cause harm to women, sex segregation is one of these things.
Another is two people in nurseries when intimate care is needed.

Statistically men are more of a risk.

@Eyezswideshut - you do know that over 90% of all violent crime is committed by men, don’t you? Could you just answer yes or no?

Talking 👏

Going along with the polite fiction that a transwoman is literally, actually a woman in a context of working out the best way to keep women safe would be completely inappropriate.

Which is the problem with the approach taken by the government, the other political parties and all policy makers.

Can I just say to the women, I love your relentless energy in pursuit of shining a light on this situation and willingness to educate others even when they deliberately derail the thread or miss the point.

It seems the only reason people think they are dangerous is because they were born male. Nothing other than that. If being male is such a risk factor for rape and violence then as a society, we shouldnt leave any men with children because we cant tell when they will lose control and rape or kill them.

lemon your determination to deny women/girls - as the less powerful of the two sex classes in the unbalanced world we live in - the right to have reasonable boundaries is deeply misogynistic.

My head is scrambled too, by the truly appalling internalised misogyny of women like you who stir up hate against other women with your vile accusations of “transphobia” simply because we want boundaries.

That’s all it is. All we want. Boundaries. The right for those of us of the female sex (oppressed for thousands of years by males) to have boundaries when it comes to those of the male sex (oppressors of females for thousands of years). Boundaries that apply to all those of the male sex.

You want to deny us our right to say “no”; it’s that simple. You are trying to destroy everything women have ever fought for. You make a mockery of all the arguments around consent. You are actively trying to bring about a world in which women and girls are not entitled to the boundaries which we, as the more vulnerable and more disempowered of the two sexes, should be entitled to.

You want to disempower women even further than we already are, make us even more vulnerable than we already are.

And some of us are saying “no” to you.

No, we’re not transphobic. We don’t go looking for trans individuals to beat up or harass. We don’t sexually assault them. We don’t wish them to be discriminated against at work, in housing, healthcare or any other area.

We just want boundaries. The right to say NO. Because a world that doesn’t respect a woman’s right to say no is truly a shithole, and anyone working to bring about that sort of environment has no business flinging accusations of bigotry at anyone else at all, least of all at the women doing their damndest to stop it being such a toxic shithole.

You are the problem, lemon. You and your internalised misogynistic bigotry that has blinded you to reason and rational argument, that is making you a tool for those who wish to shut women’s rights right down. Well done you.