The women promoting transition.

They probably don't truly believe it deep down but TWAW is like some superstitious mantra you have to chant to keep the vicious TRA demons at bay. They know how aggressive and cruel TRAs are and fear being hounded on social media and word getting around that they are 'transphobic' and will be ostracised by their peer group.

I really don't think this is it, in the main. The women I know who saw this aren't trying to keep from being attacked, they are themselves likely to be attackers or at least believe those who don't agree are bigots.

She probably does think that... Or she's buying into the myth that when a man says he is a woman, his horrible, awful man penis transforms via magical gender sparkles into a lovely, beautiful lady penis that any lesbian would find arousing.

I don't suppose this young woman is actually naive enough to think that TW are all surgically transitioned?

They probably don't truly believe it deep down but TWAW is like some superstitious mantra you have to chant to keep the vicious TRA demons at bay. They know how aggressive and cruel TRAs are and fear being hounded on social media and word getting around that they are 'transphobic' and will be ostracised by their peer group.
So the quicker you chant TWAW, it might pacify the watchful, vengeful eyes and hopefully they will leave you alone.

@NonnyMouse1337

IKR? i see it a lot though on social media. Young lesbians ranting about how disgusting it is they are targeted by men "we're lesbians, we dont want your dick" and as sure as the sun rises someone will ask about TW and they will be "TWAW end of"

i assume they see them as fellow 'outsiders' and also idk how many of them have had sexual relationships at all or really see it in those terms

it makes my brain ache lol

one of them also identifies as a lesbian and went on a long rant on our fb group about men targeting lesbians "we're not interested in cok dude" and then somene said "what about TW?" and they straight away said "TWAW so I dont see what your point is"

LOL

The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.

this is one I struggle with a lot. older lesbian friend in long term settled relationship & strong feminist has completely brought into the 'equality act provides all the legal cover rquired so self ID is not an issue' to the point where she will no longer speak to me about this "I cant believe you're a TERF"

younger friends wont even discuss it, are completly no debate. For example, one of them also identifies as a lesbian and went on a long rant on our fb group about men targeting lesbians "we're not interested in cok dude" and then somene said "what about TW?" and they straight away said "TWAW so I dont see what your point is" I mean I just cant even begin to understand that mind set other than to say that to her its a theoretical position in that she identifies as a lesbian but has never dated anyone male or female. Another friend has a sibling who has come out as trans and it breaks my heart to see her bravely call her brother, her sister, worrying about them not passing and all the prejudice they will face whilst also raging about how sexist the world is....it makes my head explode

There is the same element of exclusivity about it. Of sneering at those who fail to use 'correct' language which always strikes me as a new form of etiquette that serves the same purpose as the old forms, which is to exclude those not in the know.

Yes, I think this is why the correct language has to change all the time, it's a way of identifying the in group, so as soon as something begins to be mainstream, it's no longer useful.

But then you get working class tories so I guess..

I think this makes a lot more sense. The progressive left has made it clear they despise the values of many working class people, and they also don't seem to quite understand the kind of grass roots approach to leftism, they favour a much more top down approach Not to mention they've all fully embraced globalism anyway and the working classes are under no illusions who that is really good for.

I think a big part of it comes down to the idea that many of these women have already accepted certain popular slogans that incline them to accept trans ideology. Identity politics, the idea that our bodies being sexed is irrelevant to who we are, among other things.

I just think they don’t use their brains tbh

A subsection of the highly privileged have always had a holier than thou streak.

Yep. Ever since Victorian philanthropists set out to "improve the poor".

I also struggle to wrap my head around usually educated priviliged women, supporting this movement.

A subsection of the highly privileged have always had a holier than thou streak. A snobbish attitude to their 'lessers'. A view of themselves as better, deeper thinkers, of being more understanding. This is just the latest incarnation.

There is the same element of exclusivity about it. Of sneering at those who fail to use 'correct' language which always strikes me as a new form of etiquette that serves the same purpose as the old forms, which is to exclude those not in the know. Again, this has always been the province of the privileged few.

Thanks Jelly. The first line of that quote is key, isn't it?

But then you get working class tories so I guess..
Identifying on a deep emotional level with the very people who hate and oppress you must be a human thing

You really can't understand why a working class person wouldn't be a Tory?

You have no comprehension that a working class person might look at the anti- business rubbish being spouted by Corbyn and think it makes no sense?

You think that a working class person might not support a party which encourages hard work and initiative?

Dworkin: "Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy on behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around, including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don't want anything to do with anymore. It doesn't matter who the individual women are. They all have the same vulnerability to rape, to battery, as children to incest."

Sometimes when you don't understand someone else .... it's them, not you.

I had a friend who specialised in extreme medicine (A&E, disaster work abroad) and then trained to become a GP but absolutely hated dealing with the ordinary everyday stuff and was horrifyingly ageist. No adrenalin buzz. She started working with the homeless, then went into prison work, then asylum seekers and then she dropped it all to go into trans medicine. She's now powering up the transmedicine hierarchy.

She's someone who needs to see herself as a heroic saviour of oppressed minorities. I think they used to call it a god complex.

I guess I am struggling with the fact that so many women disagree with me in this! I feel like a sex traitor. These, after all,are the women Dworkin meant when she talked about women you don't like.

I don't really get your point. There will be women you disagree with on all sorts of issues, sometimes vehemently so - politics, religion or whatever.

Does anyone have the dworkin quote alluded to? - I can't find it, and I don't want to try to make a further point without checking what it said.

I also struggle to wrap my head around usually educated priviliged women, supporting this movement.
I think age has a lot to do with it, it seems to be more younger women.
Gender idology is so obviously toxic to women, it completly hateful. How do these women imagin they are progressive? it beggers belefe. They mental gymnastics must be mindblowing.
But then you get working class tories so I guess..
Identifying on a deep emotional level with the very people who hate and oppress you must be a human thing, some kind of denial mechanism?
isent there a quote about getting you to hate the ones who are trying to free you and loving the ones who are oppressing you

I think there are a few things going on.

Women have a lot of different ideas. I kind of hate the claim that women who don't toe the feminist line, or don't consider themselves feminists, even on some issues, are somehow handmaidens or working against their own interests, etc. It's patronising. People have a lot of different experiences and ideas about how things work best for all and for individuals.

And feminism does have different strands, like any ideological position that has been around for a while. People have new ideas as well over time.

A lot of the women I see big on supporting gender ideology consider themselves to be feminists. They think it is about redressing rights, recognising diversity. Usually they don't realise how medically questionable a lot of that part is. But they see it as in part a language thing as well, that we now define woman and man by gender rather than sex. Often they also have a shallow view of other rights questions, about race or SSM or any other current topic, they tend to spout slogans and get angry if you try and really think about them, or point out that some people they claim to be speaking for don't agree.

Speaking generally, I find most men are less likely to be very vocal about this, and even if they take the same general view are more willing to talk about it and see where it might be a problem. Those that are involved in activism or vocal are more, maybe a lot more, aggressive than the women though.

I think feminists in general need to move away from thinking there's some default stance that all women will 'naturally' gravitate to simply because they are women.

Agree. We are not an amorphous mass, we have no 'hive mind'.

However, the consequences of misogyny and legalised erasure will be the same for all women, no matter whether their opinions and beliefs differ from those fighting against it.

I may fundamentally disagree with what these women stand for, and they me, but I have to include them in my feminism - otherwise, according to my beliefs and my standards, I would not be a true feminist.

I don't have to like it.

Jazz’s mum too. They are so invested they now cannot turn around.

Neoliberal feminism will of course support individual choice in a market place where the self is commodified. Others would argue that commodifying the self does harm to women as a group and therefore is not feminist.

This is the crux of it, really.

It grinds my gears to see the naked individualism promoted within neoliberal feminism as having anything to do with women as a class or anything to do with anything even approaching leftism. I wish it would stop colonising the left.

Not forgetting Helen Islan and Diva editor (name escapes me at the moment).

I can understand Islan (the same as Green - where can they go with this? They have to continue because of their past choices with their own children)

But I don't get the other one.

Ruth Hunt. 'Men are always going to rape women'.
Jo Swinson. Asked about violent men and talking about lesbians instead.