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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Body positive book for toddlers!

287 replies

WomanBornNotWorn · 26/11/2019 12:19

Great idea - helping small children

mobile.twitter.com/Transgendertrd/status/1199056010520023040

Body positive book for toddlers!
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Kantastic · 05/12/2019 08:55

So I have a question about the book (for those who have read it.)

As a child I was extremely dissociated. I would disconnect from my body due to anxiety and sensory overload. I have a 4 year old niece and I worry that she might be showing signs of the same tendency.

I love this book's title, I think that alone might partially inoculate against that kind of disconnection. Is there anything else in the book of value to possibly-spectrum-y kids?

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 05/12/2019 08:49

Being told that your body is just right as it is whilst in hospital having surgeries to change your body - that's a bit if a head fuck isn't it? If my body was just right as it was why did I need big surgeries to change it?

This book is not about children who are in hospital having medically-required surgery.

One of its aims is to not make children want surgery they don't need. Unlike the 40-odd other books which tell children the opposite.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/12/2019 08:38

Lordamighty

Because I was a child with a disability. My dd was a child with a disability. We have experience of it. Would I have wanted to read a book that told me that my body was great as it was, that I should love it, that I could do or play with whatever I wanted when I absolutely could not? No, I wouldn't have because it would have been patronising and dismissive of my reality. How is that helpful? Clearly the aim is to provide an opposing view to young children around the trans issue so why include disability in that?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/12/2019 08:34

SonicVersusGynaephobia

I would complain about all books that give unhealthy or unhelpful messages to children.

Just because this book is giving an opposing view to other books it doesn't make it right, in my opinion.

Yes, I'm an adult now but I was also a child with a disability as was my dd so I do think I have insight into how I would have felt reading this as a child. Being told that your body is just right as it is whilst in hospital having surgeries to change your body - that's a bit if a head fuck isn't it? If my body was just right as it was why did I need big surgeries to change it?

FamilyOfAliens

Fair enough. Presumably only the people that have read it can comment then, even those saying it's a good thing but who haven't read it? Will you be telling them not to comment until they've read it too?

Lordamighty · 05/12/2019 08:34

Hearhoovesthinkzebras - why are you making a body positive book aimed at young children, all about you?
Accusations of gaslighting, when you haven’t even read it.
ignores my experience and my reality
That’s because it’s not written about you. If you want a book written about your reality then write it yourself.

FamilyOfAliens · 05/12/2019 08:32

Jesus, zebras, that’s another book you’re commenting on that you haven’t read! Just read them, and come back with your views from a position of being informed.

Kantastic · 05/12/2019 08:31

If you regard yourself as being at the same level of emotional maturity and reading comprehension as a 3-6 year old, Hooves, I suppose it would behoove you to write to the author, tell her that you are a member of her target market and inform that based on what you've read about her book on message boards you think it sounds like a plot to gaslight you. I'm sure she will give your feedback due consideration.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/12/2019 08:29

The book '10,000 Dresses' is sexist and homophobic. This is taught in schools despite being damaging.

I haven't heard about or read this book either, but if it's as you say, then I don't agree with that being in schools either.

I can't get my head around how you can address many complex needs within one book with just a couple of examples of children with disabilities but then assert that it will be positive for all children. Disabilities are complex and wide ranging. A child in a wheelchair unable to move at all will have a very different experience to a child with partial hearing loss. How can you address all of that in one book?

FamilyOfAliens · 05/12/2019 08:28

Read the book, zebras.

Until you do, all you’re doing is commenting on people’s posts on this thread.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 05/12/2019 08:28

The book not for you. It's for 3-6 year olds.

If you are looking for a book for older adults with chronic and deteriorating health conditions, and how to manage that, then this isn't a book you'd choose.

I say again, this is a book for children to help them love themselves and look after their bodies.

(rather than the 40-odd other books for children which tell them that their healthy body is wrong because it doesn't match their personality, so they should make it unhealthy, giving themselves lifelong serious complications, while pursuing the impossible. I'm interested, zebra, did you spend this long complaining about any of those books? Or is it just this one which has you vexed?)

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/12/2019 08:26

Really? So someone who has worked with people with disabilities has a better insight into what they need then a person with a disability? That's a bit patriarchal don't you think? "I know what you need better than you do"?

Kantastic · 05/12/2019 08:24

I'm sure it's already been mentioned but the author of this book has taught children with disabilities for many years as well as having won awards for her books of poetry for children

I suspect her insight into what messages children with disabilities can benefit from hearing vastly outweighs the insight of any random message board poster, no matter how insistently long winded, repetitious, tedious, whiny, redundant and repetitious that poster is.

HandsOffMyRights · 05/12/2019 08:23

If you want to talk about gaslighting...

The book '10,000 Dresses' is sexist and homophobic. This is taught in schools despite being damaging.

There are also books that normalise the amputation of healthy breasts, talk about binding or 'being born in the wrong body'

What a refreshing change this book is.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/12/2019 08:15

SonicVersusGynaephobia

Then I don't see how that can possibly be a positive message for all children - especially those with illness or disability. Of course many people with disabilities will be positive about their bodies but I know that I'm not the only person to feel the way that I do. To have a book tell me that I should be positive about my body and love it just the way that it is ignores my experience and my reality. I don't use this term lightly but it's gaslighting.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 05/12/2019 08:04

What is the positive message?

I think you've been told that about a dozen times already.

FamilyOfAliens · 05/12/2019 07:42

zebras

I really think you should either read it, or not comment on it, as you haven’t read it and seem to have already decided you never will.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/12/2019 07:24

This really isn't the book to get vexed about. It's a nice book for children with a positive message.

What is the positive message?

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 05/12/2019 07:21

Again, I do think.its trite to have 1 token child in a wheelchair as the representative of disabilities. And is that child really playing together with whatever toys they want?

It's not "1 token child in a wheelchair".

I suspect you are seasoning, again.

This really isn't the book to get vexed about. It's a nice book for children with a positive message.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/12/2019 06:52

Your disability might set you apart, but isn't the message of inclusion a good one for small children?
Would to rather a book that said no, don't play with or include as much as possible children with disabilities in your game?

Your post here is talking about the message the book could give to able bodied children about children with disabilities. I'm talking about the message that it gives to children with disabilities.

I'm only going on what people here are saying about the book. Personally, I don't think it's good if it's saying to a child with a disability that they have to live their body, that it's perfect just the way it is, that they can do whatever they want and play with whatever toys they want because those things aren't necessarily true. Please don't tell me that my body is perfect as it is or that I should love it. If it was perfect I wouldn't be in constant pain. I wouldn't be facing multiple surgeries. I wouldn't have to take medication that makes me ill. Don't tell me that I can do whatever I want when. I've had to change jobs, when I have to work reduced hours and then have to come home and go to bed because working has made me so unwell, when I can't go on holiday or have a social life or do the exercise that I want to do or cook or clean the house.

The message that you are saying the book is giving is aimed at able bodied children and to me is ignoring the challenges that children with disabilities face because its real aim is to challenge views about trans issues but has thrown in skin colour and disability as a smoke screen. Obviously I haven't read the book so am only going on what has been posted here.

ThreeLittleDuckies · 05/12/2019 02:26

Or possibly a very right ring men's magazine?

ThreeLittleDuckies · 05/12/2019 02:24

Your disability might set you apart, but isn't the message of inclusion a good one for small children?
Would to rather a book that said no, don't play with or include as much as possible children with disabilities in your game? Would you support the message of the book then?
I personally want to teach my able-bodied children inclusion. It's such a lovely book, it's about loving your body. It's about your skin colour, your disability, both sexes/genders, it's about ending gender stereotypes. That all children are different and that's okay.
Ultimately you do have one body. You are at what you're born, whether it's because you're black, disabled, a boy or a girl. I think that fantasising about changing it can have a detrimental effect when you get to a certain point. You're imagining the book to be much firmer than it is.
@JanesKettle I'm not on Twitter, what an earth is the argument it's terrorism?  Has anyone reminded them of the definitions of both terrorism and literal? Also of love and inclusion, can they see how those are different? Confused
@Melroses What is penis news? I darent google Blush It sounds like something involving porn? Why are they reviewing a children's book?

JanesKettle · 05/12/2019 00:19

Penis News has 'reviewed' it. They didn't like it.

How very homophobic of them.

Melroses · 05/12/2019 00:17

Penis News has 'reviewed' it. They didn't like it.

JanesKettle · 05/12/2019 00:14

Will it make them feel better to be told to love their body

I think the message of the book is more nuanced than this, and maybe less didactic than you are imagining.

Eventually, all of us with disability or life changing or life limiting illnesses have to come to terms with what is.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 04/12/2019 23:55

I hear what you're saying but realistically in school just how much notice do teachers take about what book a child might pick up in the school library?

Will it be helpful.to a child angry at not.being able to.play football.with their friends say, or being able to go.to the party at the trampoline place? Will it make them feel better to be told to love their body and it's just fine as it is?

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