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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Body positive book for toddlers!

287 replies

WomanBornNotWorn · 26/11/2019 12:19

Great idea - helping small children

mobile.twitter.com/Transgendertrd/status/1199056010520023040

Body positive book for toddlers!
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JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:26

Thanks littlbrowndog

Gonna go make a cup of tea and get offline, I think.

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:25

I can see how distressing it is for her

We live in a world where it's OK for people to attack the reputation and livelihood of an autistic woman, who has devoted her life to art and to children, because she wrote a book that doesn't fit in with their religious world view.

I don't know Rooney, except online, and I am sure, like all the other strong women out there, she will get through this, but I am so tired of people hounding women for doing nothing other than expressing their views. Hounding them. So many vicious commentators out there, shilling for the The Man.

littlbrowndog · 06/12/2019 21:22

All good janes. Why not. That’s what we are here for.

No rules here. Well apartn from the MN’s rules.

You care you ar3 a mum. Caring for your child 💪💪💪💪

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:20

pombear

No. I don't object to other people having and expressing feelings of empathy, at all. I just personally don't have much.

I don't think I've been blessed with any parenting super-powers, though. Every single parent who listens to their gut and has an ounce of courage can see through this contagion. That doesn't mean their child won't transition, it doesn't mean there will be a happy ending. But I know too many ordinary yet brave parents to think that blind acceptance, when your child has GD, is the only thing possible for most of us.

I did not at all think you were excusing their attack on a writer. It's actually unexcusable, though the whole Hebdo thing taught me that many people will excuse the unexcusable - not an assumption I made about your from your post, however.

Just expressing frustration, really. Doing the wrong thing, on the wrong thread. Doing what I told hooves off for doing.

I just can't bear that women are attacking Rooney. I can't.

littlbrowndog · 06/12/2019 21:18

I know janes. Been watching it on twitter.

I can see how distressing it is for her and I saw that she never imagined the terrible shite she had thrown at her

Yeah punished is the word for writing a lovely book

Just just unbelievable it’s almos5 barbaric

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:15

littlbrowndog

I can't bear it. That so many people are invested in attacking, not only the book (that most of them haven't read) but the writer herself.

I can only hope that Ahlberg is not receiving the same amount of abuse.

Rooney is a non-neurotypical woman, with a non-neurotypical child, who has worked with non-neurotypical children for much of her working life. Why can these women trying to make her unemployable not extend the grace to Rooney that they demand for themselves, and assume that the book is a response to concerns Rooney has about the messages children (including autistic children) are hearing and internalizing ?

How is it possible that to be on the side of body positivity, of acceptance of neuro-diversity, of art can be punished in this way ?

pombear · 06/12/2019 21:12

JanesKettle I hear you. And you should be able to be pissed off here. Many of us are, on your behalf.

Like you say, parenting is not a walk in the park. And sometimes parents make decisions that aren't always great. And if you get stuck in that decision-track, I would guess it's hard to get back out.

There are lots of factors that determine whether you're a JanesKettle type parent, or one that blindly follows the Mermaids path.

But nothing excuses their attack on a fellow author/illustrator, and I hope you didn't take that from my post.

My natural response would be much more than a shrug but the eggshell floor we walk on here in FWR is crunchy. I hope my post didn't increase your pissed-off-ness, but if so, I apologise.

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:09

Genderists on Twitter: 'loving your body isn't a solution to gender dysphoria'.

f*ckwits. If they bothered listening to any of the women who have detransitioned, or who found ways to deal with dysphoria without transitioning, they would hear that a common thread is radical acceptance of the body you are in.

That might not look like 'love' as 'love' is sold to us, as happy butterflies and endless good feelings, but radical acceptance is a very deep, very authentic form of love.

littlbrowndog · 06/12/2019 21:09

Seen it janes.

But then Clara uses terf blocker so I was blocked. Just like that

Silence the dissension.

Silence women

Shut us up in case we say something you don’t want us to say or to be heard.

Shut us up. Be silent

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 21:03

Do people know that genderists like Clara are defaming Rooney and seeking to stop her employment in schools as a poet ?

VMisaMarshmallow · 06/12/2019 20:59

MrsFiona I’m not surprised that would be the case, pain clinics all over tend to offer support groups and psychological therapies as ways to cope with chronic pain. That said though it often depends on the underlying reason for pain. One of the common causes, that include those who fall into the catagory who would likely have some benefit from self care, social support, validation/understanding type interventions, is chronic pain resulting from a previous injury. One thing that happens when our bodies experience pain is that our nerves at the area of pain fragment off, so effectively increase senstivity to experiencing pain. At the same time the receptors in our brain that pick up on pain increase as we experience it, so again increase sensitivity to feeling pain. So the underlying injury can heal with the correct treatment but a person is left with chronic pain because now their nervous system is wired up to feel pain more easily, even though there is no longer an injury. It’s a bit like how stress sensitises a person until they experience anxiety or stress over normal every day things because their brain has became so heightened to picking up on it, like hyper vigilance. It’s why people in pain should always take their prescribed pain meds because interrupting the pain signals before chronic pain becomes set in is important. This is also the group that after the injury is resolved are less likely to benefit from long term pain meds and have better response to the likes of low dose anti depressants for pain, and show the best response to support groups, cbt/mindfulness etc for managing pain long term. (Speaking generally here of course and I’m paraphrasing my many pain clinic consultants over the yrs).

Then there’s those of us who have underlying conditions that cause pain due to disability or illness. We may experience the above also but often advice for our pain management differs, specifically related to our conditions. I have elher danlos syndrome (and a fuck tone of other disabilities and health problems, but I’m not playing top trumps). When I am injured (dislocated, sublaxed or partially dislocated, or soft tissue injuries around this) the advice is straight to bed, up my opiates to oxy or diamorphine and Valium ontop (as well as my usual pregabilin). My rheumatologists always emphasis strongly to get the pain under control first as experiencing pain switches off core muscles and leaves me at risk of further dislocation due to not moving carefully enough. Then I go down to usual codine again instead and started back on tiny physio moves from bed, to careful Pilates in the house, to building up to hydrotherapy then careful weights at my gym. Getting the drugs right makes it more possible to move with ‘less’ pain and enables careful exercise which builds muscle and ‘reduces’ the risk of dislocation. (I used to sneeze and dislocated several joints, now I’ve built up to mostly just sublaxing and being able to care for my kids multiple disabilities around this, which is a huge improvement even though the reality is taking 20-40 odd tablets in a day (adhd meds, sleeping meds, side effects meds and so on too). I have chronic pain too, and then a lot of the physical symptoms like digestive problems/hemoraging problems that come with pain also (although I don’t have the worst ones of heart problems which I’m hugely greatful for). So when I’m functioning at my usual something like care, support, some pampering and human contact helps some, but couldn’t come close to cutting it when injured. I’m aware eds is by no means the worst of painful disabilities (although the way my drs seem happy to throw serious controlled drugs at me you’d think it was. I’m a walking pharmacy most days).

Anyways, not meaning to me rail this, or be woe is me, but I wanted to say I appreciate your point, and that you’re correct that support and care and social contact are approaches that help with plenty who suffer pain, and that despite it being a fair bit more complicated for plenty of us I welcome your contribution to the thread. I would think the point of a book about accepting our bodies for a child experiencing long term pain would be a similar understanding compassionate and soothing approach, so rather than the kid being told to try harder, get over it, suck it up etc would be a care giver encouraging them to be kind to themselves when they experience pain and to take some soothing time out doing something that makes them feel good with friends, like maybe sensory toys and a singing game. I would see that idea of accepting our bodies as they are and not seeing them as wrong or blaming them as a beneficial idea that can be adapted for kids with disabilities also, and I don’t think the message of accepting our bodies in general terms needs to be specified only for kids with disabilities (or kids from differing ethnic backgrounds) for those kids to benefit from that general message, and/or from being visable in a book about that, even if not directly about disabilities.

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 20:53

I don't really feel much empathy for a lot of those parents. Sure, it's tough to think for yourself, look into the disorder and treatment youself, make decisions yourself in the best interests of your child, stand up against health professionals and other parents, risk being called a bigot...

But that's parenting, isn't it ? It's not a walk in the park. Parents who come down on the side of Mermaids style 'but my gay, feminine child will kill himself if we don't trans him and make everything right by telling the world he's a girl', well, they haven't really done any real research, they are refusing to look at their own homophobic assumptions, they are choosing to collaborate in immense psychological, social and physical harm.

So if they are feeling a bit sad that their cognitive dissonance is being challenged (and imagine it gets triggered by a children's picture book, saying nothing remotely radical), I'm afraid my reaction is a bit of shrug.

Those parents are happy to soak up the martydom points and approval that comes from having a trans child, and they are also very, very happy to throw parents like me under the bus.

They actively do harm to the rest of us, who are trying to keep our children from being hyrt by gender ideology and gender proponents.

So really, why waste time on people kicking off because of a picture book ? And how despicable do people have to be to attack a children's author and a children's illustrator ? Of all the harms being perpetrated on earth at the moment, and people want to whinge and defame people who wrote a sweet book for kids....shame on them.

(Idk, I figured if other posters could be triggered for multiple pages, I could too! It really pisses me off when people attack artists. Did they break the law ? Did they hurt anyone ? No. They wrote words and drew pictures, ffs)

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/12/2019 20:50

The world could do with more explosing at the moment!

pombear · 06/12/2019 20:43

Explosing?! A new word, explosive exposing.

Exposing

Though I quite like explosing!

pombear · 06/12/2019 20:41

I also have empathy for one of the people in particular lashing out in the twittersphere against this book. I stress empathy, and in no way endorsement of their actions.

If this subject is very, very close to home and family, a-la-Susie-Green type of close, as a parent you're probably doing your very best to protect your own family the best way you can.

And depending on who the people you've turned to for support in that situation (ie Mermaids, GenderedIntel) you're going to have a particular worldview. Particularly if you've blocked anyone who doesn't affirm your worldview and that of your friends.

To an extent that you probably can't lift back out of the situation and see a wider picture.

You might not be able to see that support for your own child in their chosen path may a) affect a wider group of people because of what your individual child wants, in terms of access to single-sex space, etc and b) taps into an ideology which is currently damaging other children and young adults, particularly females.

And you probably can't see that your argument that calls Rachel's work part of An extreme ideology that explicity targets children and includes the claim that Rachel is denying autistic people can have agency over who they wish to be is starting to stray into suggesting that you should always validate, creating a fantastical land of 'agency' that denies reality. And is the extreme ideology.

The messages of this book must be hard to argue against without arguing against yourself.

Or without explosing an truly shaky-foundational ideological, political stance, as Jo Swinson's interview this morning exposed.

All you have left in your toolbox is lashing out.

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 20:25

It's where the whole consumerist thing kicks in - be alienated from your body, and then let me 'make' you a new one for megabucks!

I'm so happy the book is on a second print run! I am thrilled to know there are so many children out there who will be able to enjoy it.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/12/2019 20:16

It takes a while to wrap your head around, the fact that there are some people who'd actively prefer children to be unhappy and alienated from their own bodies.

pombear · 06/12/2019 20:15

My order arrived yesterday - nieces getting an early Christmas present. Though I may have to warn the parents first that I'm dropping transphobic terrorist material on them!

Apparently another print run is on its way, and orders still being taken.

Rachel and Jessica - definition of brave, knowing the onslaught you were likely to get and, in no surprise, are getting. Star Star

And Star to TT and their Christmas elves helping to get those orders off.

How have we moved so fast from Let Toys be Toys and Clothes be Clothes (which I note one objector looks like they used to support) to 'how dare you present children liking different things, clothes, activities and be OK with their bodies'?

NB: That's a rhetorical question for many who've been here a while! We know how and why.

VMisaMarshmallow · 06/12/2019 19:59

Kant I’ve found Margot Sunderland’s therapeutic stories very useful with my girls who have asc/pda/adhd. They aren’t about bodies though, but deal with emotional literacy in a beautiful and accessible way imho. My kids don’t let me even say words like anxious or angry, so approaching emotional regulation and resilience is really tough for us, and these books have helped. We have the whole collection now and teeny weeny is a special favourite of mine for my kids (it helps with being terrified of everything, and shows the character getting smaller and smaller due to fear, and then bigger again when friends come to help). The frog and the moon smile and the day the sea went out and never came back are both especially touching (for children longing for a parent whose left, and the second one is the loss of a parent). How Hattie hated kindness we love too, because my girls are often very hard on themselves and struggle to accept kindness from others when in the midst of emotion overload, so of course don’t find it easy to internalise gentle self talk also, and ruby and the rubbish bin is a really great one also, helps articulate feelings of low self worth and shows how she learns to feel better but also how those bad feelings don’t ever go away, but that she ends up with kind coping mechanism to help her sooth herself when those feelings creep up on her. They are really accessible books imho and if you want there’s parent versions also, but obviously those are way heavier reading and much more expensive.

If you think your child might have an underlying neurodevelopmental disability the best book you can read by far is the explosive child.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/12/2019 19:58

Twitter said this morning that they were out of stock.

popehilarious · 06/12/2019 19:58

Not showing on my library's database yet but will keep an eye out.

Uncompromisingwoman · 06/12/2019 19:56

Just completed my order of two more of these. I wonder how big the print run is?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/12/2019 19:53

I'm not goading I'm explaining how trite fucking platitudes about being empowering and self care fixing serious medical conditions sucks when your life is fast disappearing down the toilet due to your body letting you down.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/12/2019 19:50

Goading doesn't work on me, just FYI as a general announcement.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/12/2019 19:49

I can't think of anything less empowering than telling someone their body is "wrong".

If my body isn't wrong why am I being offered constant treatments to try and fix it? Drugs to treat Crohn's disease, surgical options to remove diseased bowel, immunosuppressant injections or infusions to dampen down arthritis, joint replacement surgery to replace the diseased joints. Of course my body is wrong if it needs this much intervention and I think I'm perfectly entitled to describe it as such.

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