Newsnight now

Royal you mean they’ve finally realised it might be a good idea to start hedging their bets?

This is great. A year ago there'd have been absolutely no chance of an interview like this.

So, what's happening at the BBC? My feeling (not entirely based on guesswork) is that it's the same as the Guardian. It has a very strong, very vocal group of TRAs on its staff who have been telling the BBC that this is a settled debate, anyone who disagrees with all the TRA demands is a bigot. But there is also a group of persistent, gender-critical women who have been pushing back. It is finally dawning on the BBC - possibly as a result of the numerous complaints made by people like us - that actually there is a debate, and it's not a done deal.

If anybody would like to donate Debbie has a crowd funder here. www.crowdfunder.co.uk/support-debbie-harries

There are interim clinical guidelines about treatment of autistic adolescents with co-morbid gender dysphoria - they are on the National Autistic Society's website.

I've seen no evidence of those being followed either.

The fact is Gender Identity Clinics are being "informed by public consultation" (presumably that doesn't include parents, only transgender people and the likes of Mermaids). and not by clinical guidelines.

The wealth of judgement and experience the Tavi spokeswomen referred to sounds very much like an echo chamber to me.

Quite an admission at the end, though, that GIDS have had feedback that’s making them raise the age at which puberty blockers are offered… after they decided to offer them to 9-10yr olds in 2014 with no research in support. Perhaps the HRA review nudged them into this?

I think it must have done. After all, we already know HRA told them to stop describing puberty blockers as a "pause" when they're nothing of the kind.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3721138-HRA-GIDS-admit-purpose-of-blockers-is-to-progress-to-cross-sex-hormones

ECT is still used. Treatment of last resort, poorly understood but works for some people.

One would hope in ten years time, we'll be saying precisely this about, well, something else. Eh, Corn, eh?

Don't forget also that EM has two young sons. She may be approaching this as many of us here, that she is concerned someone someday will turn around to one of her kids and say that some aspect of their personality that is even in the slightest bit GNC means they need permanent surgery and life-long medication with unknown side effects.

As the mother of two DSes who have variously done football and ballet, musical theatre and science, love dressing up as everything from Moana to Batman, play with any kind of toy, dress in any kind of clothes and in any colour, I am afraid of this too.

Saw this on twitter and it explains it better than me as I heard it right at the end of the programme and thought it was a shame that there was no thime to talk about it and an explanation from that doctor

Quite an admission at the end, though, that GIDS have had feedback that’s making them raise the age at which puberty blockers are offered… after they decided to offer them to 9-10yr olds in 2014 with no research in support. Perhaps the HRA review nudged them into this?

I seem to recall EM reacting incredulously to a tweet about JY. Ring any bells with anybody?
Answered my own question!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3642567-Ooh-Emily-Maitlis-just-got-peak-transed-by-Yaniv

I’ll watch this tonight

@Smallblanket I can't imagine how painful & heart-wrenching it is for you (I have young relative taking this on at just 17 - weekly testosterone shots - my heart breaks for her being used as a human guinea pig - among other things).

It is clear they just don’t have the financial resources to offer significant psychotherapy/counselling on an ongoing basis. It is much cheaper to put people on puberty-blockers/hormones. Surgery is rationed with long waiting times but many don’t want surgery and some of those that do will go private to avoid the wait. If GIDS had sufficient funds they could fight the political pressure form Mermaids and other TRAs better, but I think the amount required would be pretty vast to be honest.

ECT use was pretty indiscriminate for decades though. Much more judicious now. Probably true.

ECT is still used. Treatment of last resort, poorly understood but works for some people.

Lui Asquith said 'You can't make someone be trans.' So what does that mean for these people who identify as trans and then detransition? This should be a very important question for the trans community, IMHO

Oh the answer is always: "They weren't really trans." which is a pitiless and cruel answer.

I can imagine. They need to be called to account.

Can I say that in the adult gender service my depressed, anxious autistic 21 year old has been offered NO therapy. After 2 40 minute consultation she has been referred for hormones.

Yet the NHS statement read out on Newsnight said:

"All patients with gender dysphoria have extensive access to regular psychotherapy and counselling support, with a more detailed assessment process for those with complex physical and mental health problems".

They are lying.

ECT use was pretty indiscriminate for decades though. Much more judicious now.

As a total aside.

I feel the lesbian element wasn't pushed enough - it wasn't gay pride; it was a lesbian march Charlie spoke at.

Actually, I know someone who would not be here if it wasn't for ECT and she was very grateful for the treatment, though it was obviously phenomenally tough and she lost a lot of memory.

Well apart for the assigned crap (we really could do with someone defining sex and gender on the bbc) the report was very good.

I didn't feel the woman interviewed had any real insight.

The psychiatrist saying there may not be evidence but there is a wealth of clinical experience going back decades made me think of other psychiatric practices that had a wealth of clinical experience going back decades.

Like electro-convulsive therapy, lobotomy, insulin shock therapy, deep sleep therapy...

As an aside, ECT is actually still used (or at least was when I was a medical student) and I believe has been shown in modern times to be effective in some cases of severe depression.

the cynical part of me is thinking that this back pedalling from the BBC is due to them being aware of Harry and Maya' cases and thinking shit shit shit

I agree. And they I have employed 400 or 500 trans people, way above the average.

So this should be interesting.

Yes ChattyLion I was thinking specifically of the LGBT+ community not lesbians as a distinct group. I know lesbians have been highlighting a lot of this for ages and have been (along with other women) rightly concerned.

The psychiatrist saying there may not be evidence but there is a wealth of clinical experience going back decades made me think of other psychiatric practices that had a wealth of clinical experience going back decades.

Like electro-convulsive therapy, lobotomy, insulin shock therapy, deep sleep therapy...

Brilliant will watch later