Conservative manifesto; no mention of GRA

40 year Labour voter here. I live in a very safe Conservative seat.

I knew that I couldn't vote for Labour this time (not just because of GRA etc) but was open to reading what the other parties had to say before making a decision about my vote. (Actually I mean 'other' party as the Lib Dems and Greens were automatic 'no' given their stance.)

I've thought about this thread overnight and this morning, but I do still feel that y option is to spoil my ballot paper.

Another very interesting link which shows it is actually the Conservative party which borrows most : www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/ : Richard Murphy (61) is a chartered accountant and a political economist.

1) The spend, spend, spend of Labour has never been sustainable, I want to see the books balanced so future generations are not left with the debt of this one

That viewpoint has been very successfully sold to people...but all governments borrow. In fact these past and continuing years of austerity saw the government having to borrow even more. And if people are being so lowly paid that they are taken out of tax altogether, then governments have even less revenue. Sometimes you absolutely have to spend in order to invest and generate further revenue.

Value also has to be about human & social value - not just monetary.
And neglect & austerity leads to degeneration and decay - meaning that future generations will have to pick up the tab at some point.

"2015 George Osborne, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, announced that he intended to implement a law whereby the government must deliver a budget surplus if the economy is growing.[4] Academics have criticised this proposal with Cambridge University professor Ha-Joon Chang saying the chancellor was turning a blind eye to the complexities of a 21st-century economy that demanded governments remain flexible and responsive to changing global events.[5]

Since 1980 there have only been six years when a budget surplus has been delivered, twice whilst the Conservative's John Major was Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1988 and 1989 and four times whilst Labour's Gordon Brown was Chancellor, in 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001.[6]" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_budget

That should have said "...he's becoming more visible around local issues that he's previously ignored but he has always advocated for more money in health and education."

If you think anyone’s rights are safer under the tories because they haven’t specified otherwise, you haven’t been paying attention for the last decade.

I have always previously been a labour voter and have never considered voting Conservative. I have always lived in safe Tory seats and so I guess all of my votes have been fairly worthless.

I also live in a seat which voted by a large majority to Remain in the EU and yet our Tory MP is a rabid Brexiteer. He is certainly GC but for the reasons Thoughtlessinengland gives in her point 2) yesterday evening and not because he supports women.

However, it's now said that the LibDems are pushing him in the polls (mentioned in the Sunday Times yesterday) so suddenly he's becoming more visible around local issues that he's previously and has always advocated for more money in health and education.

I had intended to spoil my ballot paper but I'm now in the peculiar position of considering voting Tory in order to prevent the seat becoming LibDem. Very strange times.

If I end up voting Tory it will be on libertarian/free speech grounds, also the economy, and likelihood of having my sex based rights removed.

Bovary - agree. While the Tories have gone a bit more knee jerk authoritarian lately, the absolute intolerance of the left (not just Labour) and their abuse/mischaracterisation of those with different views should concern everyone.

Those are pretty much the reasons I vote Conservative too, Thingybob

Well said.

And for women specifically I feel their lives will be improved by a party that believes in freedom, empowerment and respect rather than what I see as enslavement to the state under Labour policies

Well said Thingybob. Brilliant post. Over the last twenty years, freedom, which is the definitional philosophy of Conservatism, has been under serious attack. The totalitarian urge to no platform, ban and demonise any dissenting viewpoint has resulted in the current Orwellian dystopia. Where people are sacked for stating an objective biological truth. The last thing required now is a political party colonised by an aggressive undemocratic lobby group who have taken a battering ram to sex segregated spaces.

The behaviour of so many remainers, not least their patronising attitude towards people who happen to hold different opinions, has been a real eye opener for me.

Disappointment and anger can make people act like like bratty children. You see it in the attitudes of some Remainers who are furious that the majority of people who voted for Brexit didn’t listen to their “enlightened” views on EU membership. They didn’t stop to think that there wasn’t just one reason people chose Brexit and have chosen to monster all Leavers as racists.

Similarly, the Leavers are branding everyone who want to delay Brexit, or seek a second vote because of the concerns around electoral fraud and what deal we are actually going to get, as enemies of democracy.

Why do you vote Tory, then? What is it about their values or policies that appeals?

Gosh, so many reasons and many why I couldn't vote Labour.

1. The spend, spend, spend of Labour has never been sustainable, I want to see the books balanced so future generations are not left with the debt of this one.

2. I want to see Brexit done and FOM curtailed as I believe the biggest factor in the lack of local employment opportunities has been the huge influx of cheap Eastern European labour. Plus it's just a big ponzi scheme growing the population by importing lots of working age tax payers but long term that is not sustainable.

3. I want people (both women and men) to be empowered to make their own choices in life. Benefit policies often restrict the available choices as it is often not worth even trying. I know UC has a bad press but I personally know many families claiming it who are very much in favour.

4. I dislike the righteous rhetoric we hear from many Labour supporters. e.g Brexiteers = Scum, T**fs = Scum, Tory voters = Scum, The Rich = Scum, lack of support for X, Y, Z = Scum. that is not politics. I want the opinions of every individual respected.

5. And for women specifically I feel their lives will be improved by a party that believes in freedom, empowerment and respect rather than what I see as enslavement to the state under Labour policies.

The behaviour of so many remainers, not least their patronising attitude towards people who happen to hold different opinions, has been a real eye opener for me.

Yep, I'm pretty pissed off at being dismissed as a thick racist bigot. The tone has a familiar and unpleasant ring to it. #nodebate I'm pretty cautious about speaking out about it in RL too

By the logic you could lose an MP who has lived in the area all their life and is fab on local issues to someone who has been parachuted in by a rival party and doesn’t understand or care about the constituency itself

Yes, that is what real democracy would look like.....with your MP speaking out on behalf of their voters ( even if a little imperfect because not everyone would have voted for them). Thing is many MPs just toe the party line and are whipped into doing so. It ends up being more about the party than the people.

Political parties are funded by vested interests.....and there are few true Independents.

I'm pro-Brexit and have been dismayed at the behaviour of the remain side since the first 'people's vote'.
I voted remain and cried when I heard the result but otherwise I agree. The behaviour of so many remainers, not least their patronising attitude towards people who happen to hold different opinions, has been a real eye opener for me.

Why do you vote Tory, then? What is it about their values or policies that appeals?

Sometimes it’s not the political party but rather the local MP themselves that are the most important factor. If you have a local MP that is passionate about the area they represent and have a record of providing help to constituents in need, do you vote them out because you don’t agree with the national policies of the party they are a member of? By the logic you could lose an MP who has lived in the area all their life and is fab on local issues to someone who has been parachuted in by a rival party and doesn’t understand or care about the constituency itself.

The thing about Project Fear is it was all bloody true!

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

I want to know whether the Tories would start to look at the wider influence of lobby groups like Stonewall and start to combat it. I.e. is this kicking it into the long grass as far as they would go, or would we they listen to the bigger and wider issues.

I'm pro-Brexit and have been dismayed at the behaviour of the remain side since the first 'people's vote'. I haven't forgotten or forgiven Project Fear and the subsequent attack on democracy.

The thing about Project Fear is it was all bloody true! Unlike the false statements in the Leave campaign.

Some of the Remoaner stuff shortly after the referendum was a bit silly but after 3 years of negotiations and Theresa May genuinely trying to get it done it's now evident that there is no decent* deal to be had. Personally I don't think it's undemocratic to revisit the referendum result in the light of that new knowledge especially as Gove et al campaigned on the basis that we would get whatever deal we asked for.

There's also the small matter of electoral fraud...

• i define decent here as a deal that is not harmful to the poorest in our country

I do find it strange that it is almost a given that anyone who votes Tory must be well off and concerned about their own financial situation because I'm not

Well, yes, rural areas tend to vote Tory too...regardless of social or class background. There are definitely socio-economic -geographical factors involved in who votes for who.

Why do you vote Tory, then? What is it about their values or policies that appeals?

Johnson is ruthless. He wants to push on with Brexit at literally any cost because it’s a personal power project

Depends on how you voted, I suppose. I see it as making my vote and those of 17.4m others count, despite multiple obstacles bring put in the way to prevent that happening by people who don't seem to understand democracy.

And yes, I did know what I was voting for at the time.

My vote always goes in favour of social values, not just on my own personal financial situation.

Ditto and obviously like you my judgement is formed from what I see around me. I do find it strange that it is almost a given that anyone who votes Tory must be well off and concerned about their own financial situation because I'm not. For the record I would imagine my personal wealth, housing situation and income is much lower than almost everyone else on this board.

I live in a deprived, predominantly white, rural area and I see similiar things to you, homelessness, children in inadequate housing, lack of work opportunities, degeneration and hopelessness. I do not believe that Labour cares enough about the people I see around me as poor, white people are not a sexy enough cause for them. Yes of course I want to see minorities looked after but to be honest if someone is struggling it doesn't matter to me whether they are a minority or not. A homeless person is still a homeless person regardless of whether they are trans, BAME, gay or whatever.

I want a stable government which will be the least economically polarising because we need social and economic stability, inclusion and democracy and a liveable planet to live on. So for me that specifically rules out the Tories who got us into this Brexit mess in the first place and have exacerbated this since they expelled their less extreme MPs. Johnson is ruthless. He wants to push on with Brexit at literally any cost because it’s a personal power project. He hasn’t a principled bone in his body.

But even if Brexit were not a factor, Tory policies are inherently economically polarising which is the best way to destabilise society.

The previous Conservative silence and inaction (after all the public statements have been made by Maria Miller, which have not been challenged ), is not what I would recognise as support for women, it’s just their self interested political pragmatism at work.

They know it will become a vote loser to support self ID among their key voters but they can’t afford to look like they are not the Stonewall-branded version of ‘progressive’ on social issues, because the UK’s mainstream debate on self ID and genderist politics is only just getting started.

The Tories still hope to mop up more centrist voters who think they may still offer a Cameron- style ‘compassionate conservatism’. Again to that concept but it has resonance for some voters.

But TLDR; the Tories doing nothing will not help us to stop creeping self-ID. So by omission it adds up to the same thing as supporting it. Women are very very low down on their list of priorities, they see us an ignorable minority.

Whoever gets into government will have to deal with this issue at some point though and we will all campaign on it then.

We will also have public opinion on our side once the public understand what self ID means for their daughters and themselves if they are female. So let’s cross that bridge then.

So whether we vote or spoil, now is the time for as many GC people as possible to write to all their local candidates and to express their concerns about these issues.

You can bet the promoters of sex stereotypes are already hard at it with that and they will be claiming they have strong public support for everything they are saying and that the law is already as good as on their side.

I believe Johnson is unfit for public office following his conduct in the referendum.

As a Remainer (presumably) you are perfectly entitled to think that.

I'm pro-Brexit and have been dismayed at the behaviour of the remain side since the first 'people's vote'. I haven't forgotten or forgiven Project Fear and the subsequent attack on democracy.

From what I've read Dominic Cummings has weakened the civil services influence a lot (largely to be able to get on with Brexit)

One factor worth considering is how influential any political party in power might be given the total capture of the civil service by the trans / anti woman ideology. I really believe that they are the "power behind the throne" and unless their influence is harnessed in some way, this will continue unchecked

That’s an excellent point. The extent of this regulatory capture is incredible. It’s profoundly undemocratic how this lobby group has managed to successfully colonise every aspect of state power. And they have done it while the vast majority is completely oblivious.