Andrew Marr questions Angela Rayner and Jo Swinson on SelfID and EA2010

but we'll also protect transgender women as well,

Telling. What about those teenage girls who suddenly decide they are in the wrong bodies? Don’t they need protecting?

Sorry for the x, was simultaneously texting my mother!

Thank you for transcribing.
It's even more disturbing when laid out like that x

'young people from transgender backgrounds'

That irresponsible chat about suicides gives me the rage.
(Thank you Pencils for transcribing)

God, the prospect of an Education secretary who's that thick . . .

Angela Rayner:

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AM: One other area - at the moment, if you want to transition from one gender to another then you have to get a medical certificate showing that you've got gender dysphoria, and you have to sh ...

AR: Andrew can I say, at the moment it's not that people want to transition ...

AM: ... no, well ... just let me ...

AR: ... you know, you're making it sound like it's a lifestyle choice, I mean, I think that's ...

AM: ... I'm not saying it's a lifestyle choice. I'm asking you as neutrally as I can ...

AR: OK

AM: ... but at the moment, you have to get a medical certificate and you have to show that you have lived for two years in the gender to which you wish to be assigned, the acquired gender. Is Labour going to remove those requirements and allow people to completely self-identify?

AR: I mean, Andrew, this is a really sensitive point and if you look at the amount of young people that are ... you know, the suicide rates among young people, and especially from transgender backgrounds, is really a scourge on society. And anyone watching this show, I don't want them to be offended that somehow we're saying that they're choosing to be a particular gender. That's not how it feels for people that are going through that process. What we're saying is we will be sensitive under the Gender Recognition Act to ensure that people can be valued of who they are and protect their rights, whether that's women, whether that's transgender women, whether that's men or whether that's girls. We will make sure that everybody feels valued as part of a society and tolerant. And at the moment, language like 'we're choosing our gender' really doesn't make people feel valued, and it's really insensitive to the trauma that many people have to go though. It's not like buying a dress or going out to the shops and deciding which drink you're having, it's an incredibly difficult and traumatic process for people.

AM: Would a future Labour government change the Equality Act to forbid the exclusion of self-declared people from certain spaces?

AR: No, we will protect spaces under the Equality Act. We will make sure that women feel protected and that there's spaces, but we'll also protect transgender women as well, and make sure that everyone feels valid. There's so many young people at the moment, Andrew, feeling that they're not good enough in our country and it's an absolute scourge, and if it was your child that's in that situation, being told that they're choosing what they want to do, and somehow that this is just a lifestyle choice, I think takes us back to the days of Section 28. And I think that's really, really ...

AM: You used the word lifestyle ...

AR: ... damaging.

AM: You used the word lifestyle, I never did, but Angela Raynor, thank you very much indeed for talking to us.

Jo Swinson is my MP. Fun times.

She's missing the point because she's homobloodyphobic!

I think she's missed the point. She thinks women don't want trans women in refuges because the abusive male partner may claim to be trans to gain access. So the defence is well we need to assess newcomers to make sure no abusive ex partners come in whatever sex or gender. She's not saying lesbians are dangerous or accusing us of saying transwomen are dangerous in this case. She thinks she's talking about the abusive partner specifically.

Completely missing the point that many abused women need a respite from males of any sort, whether ex partner or not, whether ill intentioned or totally innocent and lovely, whether identifying as man, woman or unicorn.

There's not some kind of hierarchy of equalities. Everybody matters and you can't say that, you know, trans women or cis women, you know, that one group is more important than another

But that's exactly what you're doing, you !

And stop with the whataboutlesbians when you're talking about giving men access to women's refuges. Not a good look, Jo. If you want to make refuges mixed sex, just say so.

I hate the use of “cis”.

More to the point, half the country won’t know what she is talking about.

IF THE GRA IS CHANGED THEN THE EQUALITY ACT BECOMES MEANINGLESS

FOR FUCKS SAKE

Homophobia is even more obvious when you type it out!

Dear goddess. Jo Swinson, leader of a major UK political party, an explicit homophobe.

Done a transcript of the Jo Swinson bit:

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AM: Let me ask you, finally, on trans rights, as I was talking to Angela Raynor - At the moment there are at least two requirements before you can get the certificate for transitioning. One is a medical certificate for gender dysphoria, and the other is to show that you have lived for two years in the gender to which you want to be assigned. Will the Liberal Democrats remove those hurdles, if you like?

JS: Yes. Look, this is a hugely difficult issue for many people who are finding that they're being discriminated against, that they are finding themselves with significant mental health problems, they, um ... they really, really struggle with the way society responds to this issue, and particularly the way in which the media debate on trans issues becomes so vicious, so quickly. It is really important that everybody, no matter whether they are cis or trans, whether they are gay or straight or bi, whether they are men or women, everybody can be themselves, and live, and be free to be themselves without discrimination. And at the moment the hurdles that are there are ... I do not believe that they are justified, they're not a sensible way forward. Other countries have made this change already and it has worked well, and we should do that too.

AM: Under the Equality Act, at the moment there are certain so called safe spaces - women's refuges and prisons and so forth - which are able to turn away trans people. Will you change the Equality Act to stop that happening?

JS: There's not some kind of hierarchy of equalities. Everybody matters and you can't say that, you know, trans women or cis women, you know, that one group is more important than another, what all of those ...

AM: so, do you change the act? is my point.

JS: No, what all of those places have to do ... you know, if you're in a refuge and you have ...

AM: Yes, let's take the example of a women's refuge.

JS: Yeah, OK, so if you have a woman who comes to that refuge, who is being abused by her partner, her partner is a same sex partner, then clearly that refuge has to be making sure they're doing a risk assessment on those coming in, because you wouldn't want to have a situation where that partner who had been abusive was in the same refuge. So this isn't an issue about gender, this is an issue about managing that risk, and that has to be done with all of the people a refuge ...

AM: OK, that ...

JS: ... is accepting and trans women are ...

AM: ... that seems very sensible to me ...

JS: ... often at significant risk of violence and abuse within relationships.

AM: So, finally, do you think it needs ... the Equality Act needs to be changed therefore, or not?

JS: Well, I think the Gender Recognition Act needs to be changed. I think the Equality Act does a good job. We have different protected characteristics because every individual in this country, no matter who you are, deserves to have protection on all of those different fronts.

AM: Very clear. Jo Swinson, thanks very much for talking to us this morning.

Same here, GCAcademic. All I can think to do is spoil my paper. I really don't want to but there is no way in hell I am voting in favour of reforming the GRA, and there is no way in hell I am voting Tory. But even more, I am going to use my vote one way or another.

Maria Miller was always one of the more stupid girls. Academically OK but not a great thinker.

Even as a staunch remainer I'd vote Tory if I were in your situation. Hell, I'd even vote Brexit over Lab/Lib/Green.

Only Cons, Labour, LibDem and Greens in my constituency. So I have the choice between voting for a hard Brexit or for the removal of my sex-based rights.

I'm so grateful that the Monster Raving Loony Party are standing in my constituency, I can actually vote for soneone.

I was thinking of spoiling my ballot but the Lib Dems have a chance of getting in here. Their candidate is woke as woke so I'll be holding my nose and voting for the incumbent with the aim of keeping the Lib Dems out.

Same here. I know our LD candidate very well and he's great, but I will not vote for a party whose leader uses the phrase 'cis women' when she is talking about, um, women as opposed to males with womanly gender identities. No way. I'm embarrassed to be a member.

I can't even be bothered to comment about Labour. What a shitshow!

VinandViour I'm pretty sure it is too - it's a very new situation - and I'm still pondering how I deal with this. Won't say anymore - don't want to out myself/the school.

Suffice to say, I can't believe our girls are being groomed by various establishments to accept born males in their spaces.

Gove’s wife has written some good GC articles. Perhaps Marr felt it was not going to be fertile territory.

As far as I can see there is nothing in the Conservative manifesto about reforming the GRA.

Why is no-one asking asking the same question of the Conservatives, who are the ones that stirred up the hornets’ nest with Maria Miller’s GRA proposals?