Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

Blimey HearHooves you really seem to have a lot of bad luck with female care providers, don’t you?

Um...you ask...I've had intimate procedures done by a male before (not by request)...male GP's, male nurses, male gynaes are out there. You, as the patients with responsibility for your own health care, go and ask.

Just as women, with responsibility for their own health care, have to ask that their hcp for these procedures be female (GP, this gynae you've referred me to is male, could I have a referral to a female instead please ? Or, to receptionist, could you book me with a natal female for my mammogram please ?)

Jeez. No, it is not sexist for a woman with trauma to choose the intimate health care (outside of emergency situations) that best suits her needs. Question answered, why ask posters on FWR to justify something someone is saying somewhere else ?

2BthatUnnoticed

Because healthcare is pretty much set up for women to have, by default, female hcps for things such as smears and mammograms. Midwifery offers some male midwives.

If you are a female patient wanting a female HCP you, on the whole, are well catered for and won't be judged for requesting a female Dr or nurse.

If, however, due to a traumatic experience, you want a male HCP you'll be hard pushed to find one doing smears or mammograms.

I had a mammogram last year. It was a female radiographer who ushered me into the scan room, locked the door behind us, instructed me to strip to the waist and put my clothes on the chair. No curtain to get undressed behind. No gown and she just stood there waiting for me to get undressed. I won't be going back again. How does that situation occur? It must only occur because staff think it's fine as we're both female but it didn't feel fine, so where was my dignity or privacy there?

It feels like whenever I encounter women hcps they ride rough shod over boundaries, consent, and privacy or dignity, almost like it doesn't apply because we're both female.

What strawman argument? I'm asking for clarification on a thread about the same subject - is it sexist for a woman to choose to see male hcps following traumatic treatment by female hcps, as was the accusation levelled at me.

How do you request a male HCP to do smears? I've only ever been offered women nurses both at my GP practice and family planning clinic. Where do you go to find a male HCP who can do them?

hear this thread is about cervical smears and mammograms. What do midwives have to do with it?

Hear yes, you can request a male HCP to do your smear. I’m aware of one female patient who does this.

Why are you linking a random AIBU thread? Is it because, despite 900+ comments on this one, you cannot find a single one to support your strawman argument?

No one is arguing for all women to have female HCPs. Literally no one. Ridiculous straw man.

Yes they were. I'm sorry. They were saying that men had no place in training to be midwives because that is a job only for women. That women do not want men caring for them during pregnancy and labour. So, if there are no men trained as midwives how can a woman choose a male midwife if she doesn't want a female midwife for any reason?

Making that argument is removing choice isn't it?

It's irrelevent if they were feminist or not. It is relevent that no one can have a clue what you are on about if you start bringing in stuff from other threads without any context.

I posted a link to the thread. I can't post every comment on here from 4 pages of another thread. This thread is about the same subject - are patients entitled to choose what sex their hcps are?

And I didn't raise the issue of the poster being feminist or not, someone else made the comment that a feminist would not call a woman sexist for requesting a male HCP. My response was to say maybe they weren't a feminist then, although they certainly posted as one.

The point remains - are we entitled to choose the sex of our hcps or not? If yes, does this mean we can choose opposite sex hcps without being accused of being sexist?

Hear no one has a problem with you requesting a male HCP for your smear. Why would we? Your body, your choice.

No one is arguing for all women to have female HCPs. Literally no one. Ridiculous straw man.

They are arguing for the right of individual women to request a female HCP if they want one.

That’s it.

It's irrelevent if they were feminist or not. It is relevent that no one can have a clue what you are on about if you start bringing in stuff from other threads without any context.

It is relevent the way you say that after all the person on the other thread might not have been feminist, it suggest to me that you think all people who consider themselves feminist have first agreed to some common set of thoughts. Ergo, if a feminist says it we all think it and are all prepared to defend it.

Maybe the poster who said it isn't a feminist then, but they certainly seemed to be arguing it from a feminist viewpoint.

To clarify, the poor treatment was very, very poor medical treatment, not respecting my withdrawal of consent and such like. It wasn't sexual assault.

It's conventional to be referring to a comment in the actual thread or to reference it out straight away. Especially when you come across as a little upset or aggrieved

I don't know any feminists who would say it is sexist for a woman to choose a male hcp for intimate care and procedures due to prior trauma with a female practitioner/female person.

Without trauma (and given that females account for vastly less abuse and assault than males), a woman who prefers male practitioners over females 'for her safety' more generally MAY have internalised some sexist ideas around the characteristics of male/female practitioners, or she MAY simply prefer a male doctor, but patient centred care means just that.
No-one should be forced to see (outside of emergency care) a practitioner they do not want to see.

In the same way, it isn't sexist for a man to request a male hcp for intimate care or procedures.

Just as it isn't phobic for a woman to request a female hcp for intimate care or procedures.

These things are not very complicated, really. I don't understand why people get so knicker-twisted about it all.

For intimate care and procedures, that are not an emergency situation, let people see who they are most comfortable seeing! And yes, that includes women who want female-only, not women-gender, practitioners!!

I don't know if we can post comments from another thread Michelle but this is the thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3759212-AIBU-to-request-no-male-midwife

if you want to have a look. The sexism comments are made in the last few pages.

Apparently it is sexist to choose not to have female hcps based on the treatment of a few bad hcps, even if that treatment resulted in trauma that causes flashbacks 25 years on.

then aren’t we equally discriminating against transwomen who need validation by new mums being forced to accept that implants on a male body can also produce milk for infants?

They fed a baby experimental chemical soup to validate a transwoman already. I don't think there are limits to this craziness.

There’s a difference between sexism (discrimination) and misogyny (class oppression) and there are plenty of examples where discrimination isn’t a negative thing (affirmative action being the obvious one, or other hiring campaigns to increase minority or vulnerable groups representation in the workplace/politics and so on).

Yardley has a very simple and clear explaination of the differences between discrimination, prejudice and oppression, and how there are certain circumstances where discrimination is a good thing. It’s easy to find on the website last I checked.

Isn't the irony strong incidentally that from a philosophy that says it's important for people's emotional safety that they be accepted at their word without question or trying to enforce norms regardless of impact on others, comes a line that others must not be granted the same emotional safety, having their choices accepted at their word and without trying to enforce norms because of the feelings of others.

How do you sort out who gets the privilege of choice and respect, and who must be told they're bad and wrong and need to obey the system? While still maintaining moral integrity in having these unequal standards of care? Without creating an inequality and resentment between the two groups?

I repeat.

Your body isn't something other people get to use, and you are never, never doing anything wrong if you say no to someone looking at it, touching it, or doing anything to it you did not choose and are not completely happy with.

Please do share the quotes from the thread saying it's sexist to refuse treatment from anyone, from either sex, because you personally want to make a choice that suits your needs? I'll gladly help argue them.

In my extended family when asked why people chose or changed doctors they always went with female practitioners, if one as available, the stated reason was that they listen.
The question came up at a family gathering when several members were undergoing treatment for life threatening illness.
Probably not true of every female doctor out there, but I thought it was probably mostly true by comparison.
It is a profession sadly lacking in listening skills.

No, I totally didn't misunderstand. Apparently it is sexist for a woman to want to be treated by a male HCP because poor treatment at the hands of several people of the same sex does not give you the right to refuse to be treated by anyone of that sex.

I suspect you misunderstood...it is no more sexist to insist on a male than female, and both types of sexism are not in anyway bad, as sex differentiation around bodily privacy seems to be well within human rights law

They're everywhere and they're all so angry! I just wonder what set it off, the particular fixation on women saying no to men in a healthcare context.

Quite.

Your body isn't something other people get to use, and you are never, never doing anything wrong if you say no to someone looking at it, touching it, or doing anything to it you did not choose and are not completely happy with.

Due to trauma caused during childbirth I don't want female hcps looking after me. Apparently I'm sexist for having that view so it appears that whilst the above quote is true if you are a woman refusing care from a male HCP it isn't true if you're a woman refusing care from a female HCP.

VMisaMarshmallow

It is quite astounding what happens in the subconscious part of your brain isn't it? I am doubtful that I would not pick up on a transwoman hcp but I acknowledge that in the future with teenagers having puberty blockers etc, maybe that will change. Maybe.

It would have to be a completely narcissistic person to front up to be a breastfeeding councillor without having real (not imaginary) breastfeeding experience. I know it took me months to get that latch correct even with very experienced and empathetic women assisting.

Wines - I get my bp checked regularly due to medications I take. When taken by a woman it’s fine, when taken by a man, even a doctor I know and trust it’s significantly higher. From what I’ve been told this is common with white coat syndrome- that women have representative results when tested by women. Now I’m sure someone could argue that i might have had it tested by passing tw many times without realising, I’m not getting into that arguement, but the legal redefinition would include all the Alex Drummonds et al as women, and ofcourse all women can tell then. So it can be argued it’s not even about whether validating identity so much as getting accurate medical results (there’s that pesky science again). I could be bending over backwards to validate the 6ft male looking woman with the Adam’s apple and beard, but my body controls my bp not my mind and the nhs should care about getting representative results from my body.

I’d also wonder what happens when it comes to breastfeeding councillors? Currently to train as one a mother (or ‘rent’) must have breastfeed for minimum of 6 months. Now if we can’t specify what sex hcp we have treat us as it’s discriminatory then aren’t we equally discriminating against transwomen who need validation by new mums being forced to accept that implants on a male body can also produce milk for infants?

This logic thing is super hard. Damn science and those pesky babies that need actual sustenance not the imaginary kind.