No person can consent to their own death, or to injury to cause death

Hold on though

If a walks up to me on the street and puts his hands round my throat it's assault
If he squeezes it's a serious assault it attempted murder
If he kills me it's murder

If he does it while we're having sex it's rape

Rape is very hard to prosecute etc and is seen as a special case crime. Lots of people want anonimity for assailant etc

So if a man does the same to me with or without an erection, it changes the nature of the crime. From one/s everyone sees as serious, to one lots of people think should be watered down, women lie etc etc

That's shit.
The assumption of passivity on the part of humans being strangled to death, but only female humans where the man attacking has an erection while he does it, is extremely troubling.

@sawdustformypony her name was Lisa Connolly

The cctv released of them in a club, he appeared to go through her handbag when she went to the toilet. It made my skin crawl.

He was a compulsive liar, from the first day he was just telling massive unbelievable lies, like he had a 3 million dollar house, a cousin who was an all black, his previous job history didnt check out. He lied about other staff . We got rid of him after a week. When we checked his references we were told he stalked a woman at another job. I think there is way more to come out, as lots of people here know of him.

fraggling I think in current law, someone doing something potentially violent that you hadn't consented to during consensual sex, would be classed as assault. If you asked him to stop having sex and he didn't, then it would become rape. I think that needs to be changed, but that's how it is now.

Heartyrebel - can you share more? It's interesting that even his family have stayed he was weird and inhumane. Tinder moist be a great hiding place for these animals.

Fraggling

Does non-consensual choking automatically turn sex into rape? I think it should.

Goosefoot for me, it’s about changing the way we prosecute this sort of crime. Manslaughter can be serious but John Broadhurst’s sentence above was a joke. It is also a lesser charge than murder. If sawdust is correct and you need to prove “intent to kill” for a murder conviction, I can’t see how it wouldn’t be useful to have that law against choking. If you’re found guilty of choking, you can’t claim you didn’t know it was dangerous to put your hands round someone’s neck and squeeze. I would hope that would help to prove intent.

I just want a change to come with the way the UK justice system treats women. The way we are treated in rape and murder trials is disgusting, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that convictions are so low for rape, or that men keep getting away with killing their partners during sex by claiming “rough sex gone wrong”.

I was suffocated during a rape some years ago, and the CPS wouldn't prosecute for lack of evidence, but today I suddenly wondered why suffocating me wasn't brought as a separate charge.
Does non-consensual choking immediately turn sex into rape?

At a guess I think it would be assault, if done during consensual sex, but if you then told him to stop the sex and he didn't it would be rape.

See, I don’t think a law specifically against choking would be superfluous. I do not think it can ever be safe to put your hands round someone’s neck, and I don’t think men should be getting charged with the lesser crime of manslaughter because there was no “intent to kill”. I think if there was a law specifically prohibiting choking it would be much harder to claim you didn’t know you might harm the person when you put your hands around their neck.

At a guess though, the crime would probably be similar in sentence to manslaughter rather than to murder. Manslaughter can be quite a serious crime.

It might be more effective to have some sort of safety campaign.

Apparently that hotel he lived in was one that 'hosts' people on parole..

I work next door, and no, it is a hotel for tourists. I believe he lived there as his grandfather gave him money, but who knows the truth

I have met this man, he worked for my company briefly last year and we were all very relieved with the result of this trial.

Flinn loads of women on here back on dating game after divorce say things have really changed. Men randomly spitting, slapping, hair pulling, hands round neck and expecting anal.

I mean with consent then ok but I understand the choking thing is super dangerous even if careful. But the posters say there's no asking, the men just do it.

But even with porn, they know it's not real life. And they can't imagine the average woman wants to be hurt, spat on etc. So why are they doing it? Because they want to try it? Because they can?

One of the things I find interesting about this is the way it is reported so differently in UK media to the women who have been murdered over here by strangulation

Things are worse if they happen overseas?

Plenty of recent cases with young women strangled to death over here and reporting v different.

Other point

If you strangle someone to death they are going to struggle, most likely. We are fairly large animals and to kill us is not trivial. Takes some effort. Yet in UK 'she asked for it' seems to work just fine. No consideration of what it would take in practice, as if the woman is passive? This is worrying. Women are people who when being throttled to death, even if the start was consensual, will struggle. This seems to not be a thing considered in cases in UK. We are not actually that easy to kill, like, I put a hand gently on her throat and next sec she was dead. This is bollocks most of the time. Unless woman is too drunk/ drugged to react in which case it's rape plus I don't know, recklessness or something.

The woman who was killed recently in UK where he got really light sentence, he said she was too drunk and coked to indicate anything, he wasn't done for rape though.

It's all very worrying.

Porn has really ruined sex for women.

Just to throw something else out there that I would like to know people's thoughts on - what about non-consensual asphyxiation/suffocating/choking etc. during what was originally consensual sex? I stumbled across it on the We Can't Consent To This website. I didn't realise this was something that might be common, if that makes sense. I was suffocated during a rape some years ago, and the CPS wouldn't prosecute for lack of evidence, but today I suddenly wondered why suffocating me wasn't brought as a separate charge.
Does non-consensual choking immediately turn sex into rape? I feel like it does deserve something in law in its own right, a specific offence of asphyxiation during sex, with limits to the legality of it clarified somehow. Just a rambling thought stream, sorry.

I don't think you can legislate for what consenting people get up to in the privacy of their own bedrooms as long as no harm is caused. For example, smacking children is illegal in Scotland but it would be totally futile and impractical to try and ban the practice of spanking.

If harm is caused, then it is right that people are prosecuted.

This was absolutely the right verdict.

I am interested as to how the "you can't consent to your own death" would contrast with the right to end your life through euthanasia in countries where it's currently legal (and IMO should be legal in the UK). Perhaps there would need to be watertight legislation in place which stipulates that another person cannot speak of your consent (i.e. no "she asked for it" defence), but in that case I can see well-meaning relatives carrying out a loved ones wishes, when they are no longer able to, being caught out. It's an interesting legal dilemma (although I fear a bit of a derail!).

Sorry, will respond to you - out at the mo with DW for a couple of pints. Hopefully tomorrow morning.

See, I don’t think a law specifically against choking would be superfluous. I do not think it can ever be safe to put your hands round someone’s neck, and I don’t think men should be getting charged with the lesser crime of manslaughter because there was no “intent to kill”. I think if there was a law specifically prohibiting choking it would be much harder to claim you didn’t know you might harm the person when you put your hands around their neck.

I don't think it's much to do with 50 shades tbh. The main demographic of 50 shades fans was prosecco drinking, Heart Radio listening women, aged from about 30-50, who love Mrs Hinch and have 'Live, Laugh, Love' wall stickers in their home.

Definitely not young women and definitely not blokes.

This is about young men being consistently exposed to violent porn, and then women having to go along with their warped expectations as a result of that porn.

I think 50 Shades did create a lot of interest in general about BDSM, particularly from women who might not be inclined to watch porn and be exposed that way. And it legitimised it as something normal women might really be interested in. I can't see that as a positive.

Yeah sorry, not buying it that all these murdering fucks go down for manslaughter. Many of them seem to be getting away with it entirely.

I think that's a seperate thing though, if people are not being convicted when they should be, or the sentences aren't proportionate.

But I think sawdust's point was that a law specifically against choking would be superfluous, because choking someone to death accidentally while engaged in consensual activity is already manslaughter, has some merit. I think maybe it would already cover that eventuality, even if it really was an accident which does seem to sometimes happen.

Maybe what might make more sense would be making images of it illegal. But then there are all the problems of the internet.

and your understanding of the law in the UK is ?

Was going to rely, but can see that badger and PeterRouse have already made the point for me.

I totally agree actually. And if you 'accidentally' kill your partner while choking them during sex then you go to prison, tough shit. It's the risk you take when you restrict another person's airways for sexual kicks.

Yes.

And apparently she 'consented' to her 40 horrific injuries, even though she was so drunk that it contributed to her death? So how was she able to consent then?