No person can consent to their own death, or to injury to cause death

If you are very drunk and become injured, the clotting factors would be reduced and an injury that would not kill you usually may then do so. I don't know how this would be recorded as cause of death though, whether both joint/alcohol top, injury>bleeding second/injury top, alcohol contributing to bleeding second.

Either way though, my first post stands - if she's drunk enough for it to contribute to CoD, she's too drunk to consent

Sawdust, do you have an explanation legality wise for the contradiction of Natalie Connelly being too drunk/doped up to stop him (and to the extent that it was cited as contributing towards her death), and the fact that legally one cannot consent to sex (making the "consensual" sex they had become rape) when under such a significant amount of alcohol/drugs?

Surely you can agree with the interpretation that if he was found to not be liable for her death for that reason, then he then becomes liable for a rape conviction?

I think the post mortem concluded that she died from a combination of her injuries and alcohol poisoning, but it was not clear what actually killed her.

www.expressandstar.com/news/crime/2018/11/28/victim-suffered-potentially-fatal-blood-loss-jury-told/

A midwife wrote the Attorney General to say that in her expert opinion, Natalie couldn't have survived the bleeding caused by the carpet cleaner bottle without medical help.

womansplaceuk.org/justice-for-natalie-connolly/

Sawdust I have no idea where you have got the idea that there was 'no evidence' that Broadhurst caused her injuries, or that she died from her injuries. His whole defence was that she sustained the injuries that contributed to her death, because she liked 'rough sex' and had consented to those injuries.

Badger Ahead of determining whether justice was done in this case, we need to agree how Natalie Connolly died. Above you wrote...

....the massive haemorrhage which killed her. That injury was caused because John Broadhurst inserted a trigger bottle of cleaning fluid into her vagina

My only information about this trial is from the Judge's sentencing remarks. There's nothing in those remarks that speaks of a fatal haemorrhage. So, a simple question, what is your source as to the facts of this case ?

To be continued tomorrow morning, goodnight.

Natalie Connolly's post mortem showed that she died of a combination of high levels of alcohol and blunt trauma injuries. The post mortem showed that she had 40 horrific injuries when she died. Including internal injuries from having a plastic trigger bottle of carpet cleaner inserted into her vagina.

Broadhurst said that she had consented to those injuries because she liked rough sex. She was apparently able to consent despite the fact that her alcohol levels were so high that they contributed to her death.

He got 3 years and 8 months.

OMG the poster repeating how a law stating "you can't consent to your own death during sex games" is being really callous implying it might impact laws around euthanasia.

Euthanasia is a very specific thing. You need to be terminally ill. You need to have a cronic illness. It has to pass through an entire bureaucratic process.

You're not going to be going off travelling, having the time of your life meeting people, in good health and suddenly go "Hi Netherlands, I fancy getting killed can your state sort it out for me by hooking me up with a strangulation sex murder? Ta!"

It's completely different.

Sawdust I’m getting a feeling from your posts that you think justice has been achieved for these dead women because;

• a fair trial was had
• they asked for it so that changes things

You are also implying that posters have not understood the legal mechanisms here. I’d just like to be really clear and say how despicable I find your attitude.

Natalie Connolly had countless horrific injuries, including the one which caused the massive haemorrhage which killed her. That injury was caused because John Broadhurst inserted a trigger bottle of cleaning fluid into her vagina. A crucial part of his defence was that she had asked him to do this. Can you explain to me why it is not possible to consent to a punch in the face, but it is possible (after drinking and taking drugs all day) to consent to a large number (I seem to remember 30+) of different injuries including a spray bottle in her vagina which caused lacerations when it was pulled out?

I don’t understand why you think we can’t consent to this under UK law when it is clear to me that the courts think you can.

TrySleeping ask sawdust how he all but got away with it.

They are keen to explain that liking a bit of pain in sex is major mitigation to the things he did to her up to her death, even when she is not able to give her side, and even though it's accepted she was too wasted to consent to anything.

If you find what they say rather, erm, interesting, they will say you are stupid. D'uh!!!

You imply she asked for him to squirt bleach on her face. You have no way of knowing that.

I find your posts shocking tbh.

'The evidence appeared to be there (although not gone into any depth in the Judge's remarks) that they both enjoyed sex mixed with pain. If you are going to have a fair trial, then is there any option but to look back and see what she liked ? Coyness has no place in any trial.'

'Oh well I mean if she liked a bit of pain then that totally sheds a different light on what he did to her.

D'uh....obviously. Are you new to this case ?'

I am only responding to what you are writing. Your words speak for themselves.

Especially the 'D'uh'. In the context you used it.

No, in law no-one can consent to being brutalised or killed. Have you really not understood this ?

I somehow completely missed the case of Natalie Connoly’s brutal death and I am horrified that this man all but got away with it. How can this be justice? 😔

Thru argued she was to off her face to say stop or anything iirc.

And yet strangely the fact that makes it rape in law was strangely not on the table.

He had it both ways. She consented to it. B although she was too fucked to consent.

Jury says well ok seems kosher.

Nice to see posters saying yes women can consent to being brutalised and killed. If the man who does it has a hard on.

I'm really shocked.

'Oh well I mean if she liked a bit of pain then that totally sheds a different light on what he did to her.

D'uh....obviously'

OMG fucking 'seriously' back at you.

Her injuries were horrendous. She is DEAD. The fact that she may have liked a bit of pain is just a massive distraction from the enormity of what he did. Fucking fucking hell.

Pp implied that she asked to have bleach squirted on her face.

She is dead so no one can ask.

It is no different to asking for a point the face. And yet, it is. Because men punch each other in the face it is recognised as violence. What that man did too her is recognised as sexy fun times oh whoops she's dead with horrific injuries.

Fuck that.

Fraggling is being sarcastic.

This is not something to joke about.

Fraggling is being sarcastic.

Oh well I mean if she liked a bit of pain then that totally sheds a different light on what he did to her.

D'uh....obviously. Are you new to this case ?

If I ask my DH to punch me in the face and he does so and breaks my jaw that's on me.

Women like that shit.

Oh well I mean if she liked a bit of pain then that totally sheds a different light on what he did to her.

Yeah sorry, not buying it that all these murdering fucks go down for manslaughter I would have no idea as to the verdicts in these cases, except for the accounts in the website we can't consent to this , if the verdicts there are reliable, mostly the juries did not accept the defence that there was no intent to kill (or cause GBH, which is also sufficient for murder when the victim dies), in some cases the defence was convincing and the verdict was for manslaughter. From memory, only 2 listed were acquitted of homicide.

Many of them seem to be getting away with it entirely As above - only 2 from that list (I think I read that somewhere, rather than count them myself.

What John Broadhurst did to Natalie Connolly - what do you think happened there Sawdust for him to get such a paltry sentence?

I wan't at the trial, my understanding as to what happened comes only from the sentencing remarks of the trial judge. sentencing remarks on Broadhurst . Here and elsewhere, one reads accounts of massive internal injuries, massive blood loss, bleach squirted into Connolly's face to cause her pain, but I don't recall any of that in the Judge's remarks. However, he wasn't found guilty of [ordinary] manslaughter, as the CPS had no evidence he killed her. He was convicted of negligent manslaughter - a completely different crime.

BTW sometimes in the remarks, where the Judge writes of 'consent' he's talking of it from the point of view of mitigation in order to arrive at a sentence not from the point of view of any defence - that ship has sailed. Consent is relevant to mitigation only.

Are we supposed to think it didn’t make a difference that he claimed (successfully) that she asked him to do the terrible things he did to her? Her sexual history was raked over in court as well

The evidence appeared to be there (although not gone into any depth in the Judge's remarks) that they both enjoyed sex mixed with pain. If you are going to have a fair trial, then is there any option but to look back and see what she liked ? Coyness has no place in any trial.

Fucker

sawdustformypony her name was Lisa Connolly

Her name was Natalie Connolly

Yes i froze as well in similar circs.

The overriding idea that men can't tell women are dying at their hand, that there are no signs, that women are passive and unreadable, in courts and the press reporting, is terrifying though.

If you are strangling someone and they stop moving and go limp that is also a sign that something is amiss, you'd think. Apparently not. Men can't be expected to pay that much attention when they address aroused.

It's all rubbish.

I'm so sorry you were attacked.

@Fraggling

Women are people who when being throttled to death, even if the start was consensual, will struggle.

I actually stopped struggling when he started suffocating me. It was rape even before the suffocating part, I was struggling to get away and trying to push him etc. When he started suffocating me, I gave one last push on his chest to try to make space but then I stopped it was like I was already dead. I was trying to twist my face to get air, but slowly, and every time I found a little gap where air could come in, I froze and held my face there. It was like I could feel my face and the air was all I could think about, but like the rest of my body didn't exist anymore. I still have flashbacks sometimes to the noise the air made being sucked through a tiny space. But I wasn't struggling anymore, I don't know why. Reason and logical thought didn't exist when I felt like I was dying. I'm sure some women would feel the same as me, and others differently.