Hang on - Labour manifesto references single-sex exemptions

Of course they don't mean it like that. As far as Labour are concerned TWAW and therefore eligible to freely enter women's spaces.

This is what they mean. It is already very difficult (impossible?) to legally exclude a person with a GRC from the single sex spaces and services of their acquired legal sex. Unless they propose changing the EA so that this is no longer the case, they simply want men to be able to self-ID as women, and they will then be able to access women-only spaces. If any man can declare himself a woman, 'sex' becomes meaningless, because it can mean someone of either sex.

Of course they don't mean it like that. As far as Labour are concerned TWAW and therefore eligible to freely enter women's spaces. It is bullshit and please do not forget that I had this ludicrous reply from my local Labour candidate only last week...

''As for trans-gender women using, for example women's toilets and changing rooms, I have to be honest and admit that I would be unlikely to support legislation limiting trans-gender women's access to these spaces. Some trans-gender women have no male genitalia, others only partial male genitalia and others are fully biologically male. I'm not sure how the degree to which a trans-gender person was still biologically male could be fairly assessed and I don't feel it would be fair to force a trans-gender person who had had gender reassignment to undress in a male changing room.''

So fucking shut up and budge up women because the blokes are on their way in. THAT is what the LP really think and if you are tempted to think otherwise by that line in their manifesto, let me remind you of something....Dawn Butler.

They're saying they'll make it easier to get a GRC but tighten up the limitations to the entitlements the GRC affords - so protecting refuges, rape crisis services, etc.

I would totally support this position. Sadly, I do agree that it is unlikely that they mean it.

I do wish they would state quite clearly that you CANNOT identify into a sex as sex is immutable.

Bit meangingless considering their Corbyn endorsed fuckup on AWS Has that changed?! I bet they've just put that in to get our votes then it will disappear afterwards, just as quietly.

It will merely mean single sex spaces kept so that there is a space to identify into, while agreeing that anyone is the sex they identify as.

Shiny wrapping, that's all. And yes, this has now in effect happened anyway, and the average shop assistant shouldn't have to deal with someone bellowing Call Me Ma'am! at them.

The thing is, the plan of it having been forced in, is that women will be pissed off but then will give up and acclimatise. Labour have been all over this one. They haven't read nearly enough Kipling.

But in reality what use are single sex exemptions when you can't enforce them anyway? Can't ask for proof of a GRC, can't (obviously) insist on proof of someone's natal sex. If the changing room is "single sex" and the ma'am with the Adam's apple says they are a woman, and indeed have a GRC because they are handed out like smarties, where is the protection? And don't tell me a minimum wage shop assistant is expected to be the gatekeeper because that's just nonsense.
The genie is out of the bottle. This might be an attempt to be all things to all people to get the cross in the box but I can't see what this achieves in actual practical women-protecting ways at all.

Will they send 5 officers and a police horse? I believe that’s the correct number of legs...

Send Lily to have a chat with Humberside Police if Lily feels offended, I'm sure they'll rush a blues and twos out to check Corbyn's thinking.

Well the whole thing made Lily Allen cry (on camera of course). 😭🙄

All it says to me is that they will ensure that the GRA will be reformed so men can self declare themselves as women, thereby making any single sex exemptions utterly redundant.

Exactly this. They'll make sure people enforce the single-sex exemptions, but they'll also allow any man to self-identify as a woman and get a GRC, which means men can enter women's spaces as long as they self-identify as women.

If this isn't what they mean they need to state it more clearly.

Like others have said, they know this issue is losing them support among their base. The frankly disgusting way the Labour party have behaved towards the people raising concerns about self-ID up to this point shows how contemptuous they are of women as a sex class.

I'm unconvinced they haven't stuck this in at the last minute to placate lobbyists within the Labour movement like WPUK; because I don't see how they can preserve and strengthen the EA2010 exemptions whilst liberalising the GRA2004 to allow self identification.

I want an unambiguous statement of commitment to women's sex based rights before I'll ever vote Labour again.

just ask them what a woman is, and who is able to join their woman only shortlists and take up womans officer positions.

My Labour candidate won't answer these questions.

All it says to me is that they will ensure that the GRA will be reformed so men can self declare themselves as women, thereby making any single sex exemptions utterly redundant.

They’ve used word salad to convolute it because they know damn well they are losing women because of it.

Someone’s done their homework before election? Not sure I trust them what with all the hoo ha about All Women Shortlist

I'm fine with handing out GRCs like smarties, so long as the limits around single sex provisions for natal female women who need them are maintained alongside new gender neutral/whatever you want to call it this week spaces.

But this looks suspiciously to me like a hurled lollipop from a party desperate for votes, who believe the end justifies the means. By their deeds shall you know them. Their history of deeds in this area is woeful and I trust them about as far as I could throw Corbyn's anorak.

If you trust them.

Well that's some unexpected good news....

Is it possible for one or both OPs to ask for a merged thread or something?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3749319-Labour-promises-to-keep-single-sex-exemptions

No, the manifesto is with regard to single sex exemptions in EqA. They're saying they'll make it easier to get a GRC but tighten up the limitations to the entitlements the GRC affords - so protecting refuges, rape crisis services, etc

I hope this is true Lang but I’m not convinced as that renders a GRC rather meaningless to those who’ve spent the last 20 odd years pushing through a different agenda . I simply don’t see Liebour making a u turn on their current stance esp when they also refer to government certification for gender equality ( what does that even mean? ) in the same section. Maybe I need to do some more reading on this.

I'm cautiously optimistic about that position.

The good: it shows they know Woke genderism is not a vote winner, no matter how much the Twitterati think it is and groups like WPUK have had success behind the scenes with regard to the needs of women.

The bad: boundary pushers don't stop pushing, ever. So still far too lukewarm for me to take the risk any work they do on protecting EqA exemptions would be significant or successful.

Really? Excellent!