Labour promises to keep single-sex exemptions

Angela Rayner says she wants to "make sure everyone feels valued"

Unless you're a woman who thinks sex based rights are important, in which case you can just fuck off.

Labour and libdems, have been on the Andrew Marr show, both spouting the suicide rates in young transgender people.

And yet if they were really worried about "young transgender people" they'd be showing more concern about the enormous rise in the number of teenage girls suddenly identifying as trans and what is behind it. But all they're really worried about is not getting abuse from the trans lobby.

Angela Rayner says she wants to

"make sure everyone feels valued",

but if you are female you need sex based rights regardless of how you identify or whether being observed to be female makes you feel valued.

More than that, we all have value because we are human. Why is the Labour Party promoting the idea that value is somehow linked to gender?

At present, transmen can decide which prison estate they should be housed in.

Are you sure of that? According to the new prison transgender policy which came into force on 31st October, all prisoners should be sent initially to a prison which "matches their legally recognised gender". So a transman with a GRC would go to a male prison.

Just to say, a depressing watch this morning.
Labour and libdems, have been on the Andrew Marr show, both spouting the suicide rates in young transgender people.

Labour skating round the same sex spaces question and being very careful not to commit to it.

Libdems straight out abolitioning single sex anything.

Not sure if the question was posed to Gove, as it's on in the back ground and I was in and out.

GRA on Andrew Marr. Angela Raynor telling off Andrew Marr for use if language and then totally avoided the question.

Rayner unable to voice a single word in actual support of women. When pressed: "Yes we will keep some spaces" (very grudging) and then an immediate deflection to "WHAT ABOUT THE TRANS SUICIDES EH, EH, WHAT ABOUT THEM?"

And I realise this thread's about Labour but Jo Swinson even worse: wouldn't say a single word in support of spaces unlike Raynor's grudging one phrase. Immediate deflection to "WHAT ABOUT THE LESBIAN DV PERPS, EH, EH, WHAT ABOUT THEM?"

Angela - take note: a full-throated support of the manifesto compromise might have persuaded me to vote for you. Now, there's no chance at all. And I am one of thousands. Well done, love: tell women you don't give a flying fuck about them on the country's premier political interview TV show in the middle of a general election campaign. So yes, you can fuck right off. Along with your party.

(Testy this morning!)

I'd really like to know if there are dangerous implications for transmen in all of this, I've seen no discussion of it.

That would seem to be the logical conclusion. Labour/Butler appear to be proposing that there should be no legal recognition of sex or or gender reassignment.

Only gender identity is recognised and a gender identity does not change.

Here is a compare and contrast of the 2017 and 2019 manifestos on trans and women's rights:

2017:

• reform the Gender Recognition Act and the Equality Act 2010 to ensure they protect Trans people by changing the protected characteristic of ‘gender assignment’ to ‘gender identity’ and remove other outdated language such as ‘transsexual’.
• ensure that the new guidance for relationships and sex education is LGBT inclusive (getting gender identity ideology into schools)

2019:

• reforming the Gender Recognition Act 2004 to introduce self-declaration for transgender people
• Ensure that the single-sex-based exemptions contained in the Equality Act 2010 are understood and fully enforced in service provision
• mandatory LGBT+ inclusive relationships and sex education (that's compulsory gender identity ideology in schools)

So the stuff about inserting 'gender identity' into the EA has gone from the 2019 version, but self-ID is new. The commitment to enforcing single-sex exemptions is new. Huge HT to Woman's Place UK and the Labour Women's Declaration for that!

That's right seahorses. And an assertion about suicide. I REALLY want to vote labour but they keep on giving me reasons not to.

Yes ChickenNuggetsChipsAndBeans - a total fudge with plenty of TWAW wiggle room given the repeated 'who they really are' rhetoric. Woman is not who I am. It's what I am.

I imagine Andew Marr is now going to attacked on twitter and it seemed like a deliberate strategy by Angela Raynor.

GRA on Andrew Marr. Angela Raynor telling off Andrew Marr for use if language and then totally avoided the question.

Why the Labour Party keep Dawn Butler as their women and equalities shadow minister is beyond me. She is very, very obviously not up to the job. Her absolute priority is sucking up to the trans lobby, Labour Party second. Here she is having a £14k all expenses paid trip to Los Angeles paid for by the trans lobby: order-order.com/2018/05/29/dawn-butlers-14000-la-jolly-paid-for-by-blairite-guru/

Why are Dawn Butler, Ellie Mae O'Hagan and trans activists in the Labour Party press office reduced to repeating stuff from the 2017 manifesto? Wake up! It's gone! The 2017 pledge to amend the wording of the Equality Act 2010 to use 'gender identity' instead of 'gender reassignment' has GONE from the 2019 manifesto.

It's really not very inspiring if the Labour Party press office and their women and equalities shadow minister don't even know 1) what their own manifesto says, 2) what the law is

So the women’s estate is both mixed sex AND mixed gender?

So how can labour defend it as such because it sounds as though Dawn Butler wants to push people with vaginas into the male prison estate?

At present, transmen can decide which prison estate they should be housed in.

Thanks BlackForest

In fact the Guardian article, apart from being nearly word for word the Times one, is published as from the Observer who have always been (ever so slightly) more likely to acknowledge the threat to women's rights by trans activists.

And whilst I welcome the concentration on this issue, I suspect the papers are actually doing this to make out Labour is confused, being muddled, fence sitting about an issue.

If the papers really cared about women's right and single sex spaces they would also be writing about the fact that all major parties are publicly stating they want to reform the GRA in favour of self identification.

Good to see that the Times and (faints) the Guardian are covering this is a prominent position on their respective websites.
Mainly great comments in the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-putting-women-at-risk-with-manifesto-trans-pledge-2njcv8z6g?shareToken=ea32da4eaac629d56132cff78b9c9ef8

What's the relationship of Labour Youth to the Labour Party?

What typically happens with Labour's youth organisation is that it starts making demands for more say in its own structures and espousing positions way to the left of the party leadership. Then it gets shut down or purged and a new, more pliant youth wing installed. This has happened several times since the 1950s.

It has no influence within the party generally, one representative on the National Executive Committee and that's about it. In fact, I suspect the reason for its existence is to keep overly radical young activists busy and away from involvement in the main party.

Yes transboys in male changing rooms. Transboys forced to sleep in male accommodation on school trips.

Because everything about their original female sex has essentially been deleted.

Or transboys into the male changing rooms and showers in schools?

(Can't help wondering if that might stop ROGD amongst teenage girls in its tracks though )

"Birdsfoottrefoil Sat 23-Nov-19 22:49:42
Transmen are women so their safety doesn’t count obviously."

Well yes, exactly, so it's not a transinclusive agenda at all. So how can labour defend it as such because it sounds as though Dawn Butler wants to push people with vaginas into the male prison estate?

Transmen are women so their safety doesn’t count obviously.

And by extension that gay people don't exist.

Oh, we’re irrelevant.