I'm loving Catilyn Jenner but..

@OhHolyJesus

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/dadsnet

Here you are

Being a woman is a very high maintenance activity

Yes, Caitlyn is an interesting and thoughtful person........but as with all trans women it takes a lot of conscious time and effort to maintain the 'pose': the feminine mannerisms; the right tone of voice; the right body posture and way of moving etc. When momentarily unconscious, or falling back into habit, the masculine traits and mannerisms re-appear very quickly. 'Being a woman' is therefore very high maintenance.

Caitlyn, from what I can gather, had always been a transvestite - which is very much about a fetish; which develops over time and often ends up with it taking over the person's whole life. It is still a fetish though.
I'm not sure it is at all the same as gender dysphoria - in the sense of feeling that you are in the wrong body.

Just finished reading Grayson Perry's memoir of growing up 'Portrait of the Artist as a Young Girl'. Grayson is incredibly candid and honest about what drives transvestitism, and on how it can develop in some men once they get near to retirement age. Worth a read, definitely!

Maybe it should be moved to dadsnet?

(Goes to register with Dadsnet to start a thread...)

Let the men budge up and make space

(Also Bruce/Caitlin is not Kim's Dad but I get your point).

Pandas don't need to do anything to look like pandas, but when I want to go out looking like a panda I've a fair bit of work to do first.

That's the truth of the matter from @Pandaintheporridge right there.

uncommongroundmedia.com/banned-from-medium-pronouns-are-rohypnol/

I don't think a thread about how much make up Kim Kardashian's Dad wears is relevant to FWR. Maybe it should be moved to dadsnet?

This is a person whose dangerous driving caused a woman's death. Why Jenner is even accepted in polite society, let alone having their make-up and clothing discussed on a feminist forum, is beyond me.

Bruce jenner was exceptionally vain I used to watch kuwtk so i imagine his "man admin "was just different and Caitlyn thinks that is what shehas to say I thought the rugby player was really sexist considering he is built like a brickshit house and probably in the gym half the day sorting out his man admin, saying that I don't mind Caitlyn she is coming across fine.

Why do some think this is what woman is?

Its all about the hair and makeup... ffs! What a lot of clap trap.

Its all about the surface for some, still. Worrying really that people are still viewed in such shallow ways.

CJ already is pretty elderly

I sometimes wonder idly what such people will do when they are elderly. The plastered in make up, porn star look will be very inappropriate by then!
So will they go for a female stereotype granny look, with a perm and a twin set? Or will they persist with the (wrinkled, sagging) cleavage and micro skirts?!
Most women friends of my generation seem happy in jeans and a jumper, but that doesn't scream performative femininity.

Loved the panda analogy.

To be fair if she did just jump out of bed and run out the door that would be pretty weird considering her socail status and where she lives

Is this what some have come to.. How awful.

No.

Social standing does not mean makeup.
Woman does not equal makeup
Makeup is just social sterotype of how women are apparently supposed to be (but aren't)

How fucking shallow, that being a woman is about doing your hair and makeup before you go out in the morning.

It takes minutes, and as a woman I don't have to shave my face every day. I wash, and go.

When I wake up, I am a woman, no matter how fast or slowly I get out the door.

This is why this is all such nonsense.

Its very sad that any individual feels they have to perform and conform so hard to a stereotype, a social construct, just to be happy.

Why aren't people seeing how sad this is.

We've spent years as women trying to move away from ridiculous female gender stereotypes, that women do this, women do that, women wear this, or speak this way, or behave this way, walk this way, its utter bollox.

It doesn't matter what you do, you are still are woman.

This is what harmful stereotypes do isn't it, make women feel less woman if they don't conform. How stupid and damaging, in this day and age that so many sadly still live under this pressure.

Its all about the natural now. What a relief.

Caitlyn still has all the appendages that Caitlyn was born with

Every article I’ve read states that Caitlin has had gender reassignment surgery. So no longer has the “appendage”. Unless you mean something else?

Still Spartacus.

but for those of us women who choose to do this it is more time consuming than men who can wash and go.

Also more time consuming than women who can wash and go.

she is definitely more gorgeous than me and her figure is amazing.

I'll try to phrase this in an acceptable manner.

Caitlynn looks that way as Bruce paid a fortune to make it so. That Caitlynn needs an hour a day to perfect it is the ongoing price Caitlynn pays. You too could look just as 'gorgeous' and spend that much time on getting ready to go out as Caitlynn if you chose to.

Me? Nah! I'm a get up and go woman!

I agree @ironickname. I quite like her, I’ll use the pronouns and name she wishes, but do I believe she’s a woman? Nah.

As we know, transwomen feel they have the right to put women in their place. Now Caitlyn has the opportunity to do that to a wider audience. Hopefully she won't, I like her better than I thought I would. Don't let me down Caitlyn!