I'm loving Catilyn Jenner but..

Well I know of one 70 year old woman who will never get HRT because she died the night Jenner got behind the wheel.

Her family have to deal with that and meanwhile Jenner is talking about makeup.

The whole scenario just beggars belief.

I'm assuming this thread is still here because presumably it's a perfectly acceptable topic to discuss in FWR - as in
however tonight she said that it's hard work becoming a women as there is so much more work (James called it women admin) and that she needs to get up an hour earlier now she is a women and can't just shower and go Why does this make you a woman
Sounds like a perfectly fine feminist topic of discussion to me?

Why is the thread about an ageing c list father still here on FWR and not over on tv topic?

The word "sassy" is nauseating. Especially as a descriptor for this particular person.

CJ is 70 years old. Are they planning on having a menopause?

Are women of 70 given HRT or do the risks outweigh the benefits at that age?

@plantainchips
So much low level transphobia as per usual

Yup

Oh, and I'm another one who's not really getting how what she's said is saying that women should spend ages grooming or make up is part of being a woman.
She's just doing what she feels is right for her.
This coming from someone who never wears make up, I'm out the door in 5 seconds flat, I'm doing well if I bother to brush my hair and make sure my t-shirt's clean lol (I lol but it's actually true)
Nothing wrong with a full face of make up either if someone likes that.
We're all different.
Shocker

So much low level transphobia as per usual.

You should report that. The moderators will remove it. Transphobia isn't tolerated on MN.

This thread makes no sense to me.

Most of the comments are from posters reading way too much into what she said. Caitlyn never said that women are required to spend longer grooming or that that’s part of being a woman. She just said that was her experience. Period.

So much low level transphobia as per usual.

Justhadathought

I'm not naive.....

I did not make any assertions, accusations, or otherwise about you as an individual but about the group of people that would assert that reality TV is remotely realistic.

It is still possible to see and observe the character of individuals. Even scripted situations cannot disguise their essential nature.

I disagree as editing can change all perception of an individual based on timing, music, added/removed frames of reactions from others or the subject, lighting/filters/saturation, etc. I've seen it in progress during editing. I'm not being a jerk here just reporting my firsthand observational experience behind the scenes.

For example, your first response to my rather innocuous post, even though scripted considering the format of communication, was rather rude and abrasive. Personally, I would always seek to find a more emollient way of expressing myself - avoiding, in the first instance, making things overtly personal or hostile/sarcastic.

I did not make personal/rude/hostile attacks on you nor on your group (reality TV fans), I quoted you but did not direct it at you like I did by placing your name at the top in this reply. There are many PPs expressing their enjoyment of reality TV in this thread on the FWR board.

I get that you don't enjoy my sarcastic snarkiness but at no point was it directed at you as an individual. Sarcastic and snarky, yes! Incredulous, yes! Abrasive, maybe? Rude, personal, or hostile, no!

IME people make a lot of assumptions about TV and production which are patently untrue with the most egregious assumptions falling in the reality TV sphere. So yes I was having a little fun and hoping to encourage thought in those with said assumptions, to tease the group, not to insult/hurt you as a person.

Many men enjoy wearing lovely dresses and putting on make-up. They love the accoutrements of what is considered femininity in our culture. I wish we could just let accept that this is a natural part of being male and divorce it from sex. Because silky underwear and eyeliner do not a lady make.

reginafelangee My best friend's like this. She's nearly 50, has beautiful skin and is really pretty, but she won't leave the house without more makeup than Bowie in the Ziggy Stardust days. To the point that if she hasn't got her 'face' on, she won't open the door to the postman. lt's beautifully and tastefully done, but it takes her over an hour and she's made us late for things on many occasions because she won't venture out with anything less than the full whack on.
l suspect that with her, it's a confidence thing.

Yes they need to hold on to that male privilege.

One of the problems for Jenner is that their area of Olympic achievement is men only, so if they claim to always have been a woman they will have to give up their medals.

My thread got deleted 😀 and also 😡

She seems to have has a traumatic childhood, I wonder how much that has played a part in her gender confusion

My understanding is that Jenner had been a transvestite for a life time ....before deciding to make it 'full time'. Also didn't seem to reject the masculine roles that were performed in their life at all.....in fact embraced many of them.

I'm not sure that transvestitism is the same as gender dysphoria at all. More about a fetish that takes over completely. Just finished reading Grayson Perry's memoir 'My life as a Girl'. Very candid and instructive.

So my point is don't believe anything you see on reality TV nor the reactions you think you're seeing from characters as they may be forced, modified, scripted, or edited to suit the intended storyline

I'm not naive.....

It is still possible to see and observe the character of individuals. Even scripted situations cannot disguise their essential nature. For example, your first response to my rather innocuous post, even though scripted considering the format of communication, was rather rude and abrasive. Personally, I would always seek to find a more emollient way of expressing myself - avoiding, in the first instance, making things overtly personal or hostile/sarcastic.

We're clearly all different, and no matter how many scripts there are in the world, or on reality TV, that cannot be disguised.

(Haven’t read thread so apologies if already mentioned)

Why does this make you a woman. I wash and go, I don't have manicures nor do I wear make up, I do not get up early to get ready but I'm equally a woman. Why should woman equal groomed?

The jungle is the perfect place to show CJs comment up for what it is. CJ is currently surrounded by women who aren’t getting up and grooming and make-upping and shaving legs etc but they are all very obviously still women. Without all the extra work involved that CJ says is necessary.

It says it all.

And lots of women do spend a lot of time grooming. On average, much much more than men

Yes that may be true however, if you're trans, you always believed that you were a woman, right? so surely that "urge" to groom would have always just been there anyway. Not just a light switch being flipped the minute she put a dress on, if you know what I mean? Like, (and I do like caitlyn alot) I just find her not at all like any trans person I've seen before. It seems like caitlyn was a really masculine, manly man, still does come across quite manly and when she talks about being a woman/changing to a woman, she speaks about it like a man would talk about his annoying wife and how she spends ages getting ready, type thing, i don't know if what I'm trying to say here is making any sense?

*Disclaimer, I'm a woman who takes literally 30mins to leave my house every morning, from getting out of bed, showering, dressing etc

I only looked in for a few minutes and found myself embarrassed for her and had to turn it off.

I admire her for being true to what she believes she is but I think she's very mistaken. She seems to have has a traumatic childhood, I wonder how much that has played a part in her gender confusion.

The sad thing about TW is they desperately want to be what we natal women already are and they can never be. I wish they could find contentment but so many spew anger and venom. Very sad.

Even with partial scripting it is still possible to observe human beings, their interactions with others, their personal quirks and so on....I find it interesting, even if you don't.

I know a lot of people enjoy reality TV - I just think it's funny when people use it as a window to observe the human condition.

My comments don't come from a place of assumption they come from knowing many people who work in the industry (behind the scenes not the "talent") - regular scripted shows as well as reality TV. They can take a scene that conveys one message and edit it with shots from different time periods or different conversations and make it appear to be completely different than it actually occurred. We call it "TV magic" - some of the things I've seen done through editing is mind-blowing due to the ability to completely contrive a situation to the producers' whims making the scene or situation unrecognizable from its original state.

So my point is don't believe anything you see on reality TV nor the reactions you think you're seeing from characters as they may be forced, modified, scripted, or edited to suit the intended storyline.

That's hilarious! You do realize that reality TV is scripted, right?

Glad you found my post entertaining. It was scripted you know!

Even with partial scripting it is still possible to observe human beings, their interactions with others, their personal quirks and so on....I find it interesting, even if you don't.

Tbf if I was 70 odd yr old transwoman who knew I could be photographed the second I walk out my door, I'd probably spend ages doing myself up so I could pass in the photos.
I'm a woman so I can shower and run out the door. Still obvious I'm a woman.
If I was fighting back an elderly and previously very athletic male physique with every grim surgery available, to look ,"female" I'd be grooming and slathering myself in make up too.
That's the point for Caitlyn. To pass. We're women due to our chromosomes so in 2019 we can accept/embrace or reject societal pressure/feminine "norms" or reject with impunity. Our choice. Because we have naught to prove. It's not our raison d'etre to pretty up every morning. Or not mine anyway.