Good luck Harry The Owl

I hope Spero is in charge of the Twitter account today again. Yesterday’s live tweets were fantastic.

Looking forward to today’s instalment. Wish I could be there!!

"I'm here to check your thinking"

Such chilling words from PC Gul

Just placemaking to wish Harry et al luck for today. Will catch up later as have a very busy day.

This is such a massive story to be reported, but Brexit, elections and the arrogance of a prince have been taking up too much space. In a quieter time there would have been more reporting.

Trying to catch up on this now, and still feeling boggled that we’re in a place of actually having to fight against the state-sanctioned policing of thought crime...

Very short report in the Times today:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-tweet-row-officer-harry-miller-says-he-was-visited-by-thought-police-lr0j968x2?shareToken=599e153cbbfbb8ca0284d94884e3a7da

I heard the 6 o'clock news live, in the car, in a traffic jam (check out the traffic jam around the SE M25 today - I was in that!) - it was typically "balanced."

You have to search hard for it, but from BBC news www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-50490311 "In response, Jonathan Auburn, for the College of Policing, said: "While the claimant now expressly disavows having any personal hostility or prejudice towards transgender people, his social media messages speak for themselves."

Bollocks. As the Judge said - where's the hate? Someone "taking offence" does not equal 'hate'.

umbel thank you

I've had such a bloody busy day! Been trying to catch up - I'm in awe at how important this ruling will be.

THANK YOU Harry et al - we can but fight the madness - and you are - that's all we can do. Special thanks to Harry, Spero, Kathleen, and all the unsung heroes and heroines in this.

"But where is the evidence of hate" - Has to be the takeaway argument from this.

Looking forward to tomorrow!

Massive thank you to all involved. I so wanted to be there today but childcare, work and travel from the sticks combo did not allow.

I am not at all familiar with the legal processes here. What is the likely timeline for a decision/outcome?

I understand that we the outcomes of Maya's case won't be clear until well into the new year. Is this the same?

The other point to note is that all the supra national institutions are all pushing genderism. Council of Europe wants requirements for gender dysphoria removed from legislation.

It's a Catch 22, as usual.

These cases are not just about Maya Forstater and Harry Miller, they're not even just about issues of free speech and employment rights. They are about re-establishing what the law actually is.

Don't want to get ahead of myself, but the judge today was so clear. Am thinking about the Wizard of Oz behind his curtain...

Sorry, ECHR not EHCR. (And the Convention and Court make for identical acronyms for both, which doesn't help.)

The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU. It's Council of Europe, which is a completely different organisation, and which we aren't leaving. The EHCR isn't affected at all by Brexit.

A lot of politicians and journalists don't seem to know this, so it's not surprising that the public get confused. But the EHCR will be binding on us whatever happens with regard to the HRA. That's why the tagline for that legislation was, "Bringing rights home". You could always appeal to the European Court of Human Rights, and the domestic law was always subject to its decisions, but you had to exhaust every appeal in your nation of origin first, which got expensive.

The EU also have courts, but they relate to EU law. Different.

Try here Once:

kathleenstock.com/witness-statement-in-the-fair-cop-judicial-review/

Could someone please tell me where to find KS statement? Is it on the WAFC twitter page? I've read the whole thing twice but must keep missing it?

Imagine a world where you could be lifted by the British powers simply on the word of an accuser

A better comparison would be Pakistan’s blasphemy laws

Just caught up. Feeling relieved and hopeful reading the Judge's comments as reported here.

A trade deal with Europe will probably have membership of the ECHR as a pre-condition but if that falls through and we look more towards the US that could be an issue...

I’m confused, wasn’t the ECHR a British (Churchill) initiative in the first place? I don’t understand what it has to do with the EU, it completely predates it?

That is - the whole edifice pretty much knows that it relies on not being tested in law

Agree with this.

Because as soon as you put it in front of a court the whole thing collaspes because of biologically thingies (said like Doctor who when they say time whimey) and the Trans Paradox.

I think that [] this, and the Maya case has shown is that we have to fight back in court.

Yes I agree. It must be so very stressful for the individual people involved but it's so important to have them.

There has been a lot of discussion about "regulatory capture" and "policy capture" on these boards over the last few years, and I think a growing awareness of just how enormous some of the battles we are going to have to fight are.

But you know what there haven't been?

Legal cases.

And that's in spite of there being at least one organisation (TELI) set up specifically to create them. As far as I know the only case they have initiated has been one arguing that TW should be able to have male-specific crimes struck from their criminal records; the case in question I think involves a conviction for what used to be called "cottaging", and is about a corner of law where the, I don't know the exact term but the "Turing amnesty"? turned out not to apply.

That is - the whole edifice pretty much knows that it relies on not being tested in law.

So. These cases are not just about Maya Forstater and Harry Miller, they're not even just about issues of free speech and employment rights. They are about re-establishing what the law actually is.

Fallingirl

Yes.

Michelle

Indeed.

I'm definitely offended by the refusing of drinks to lesbians in t shirts in that bar.

(And I tick three separate boxes on the Equality Act protected characteristic list, so presumably I can be offended three separate times. High score, collect the jewels.golden rings and advance to next level etc etc.)