Good luck Harry The Owl

The alleged transphobia side of this is very interesting, but as Fair Cop have said, this goes way beyond that. It should be of interest for anyone interested in the Twitter joke trial, or anyone on social media who cares about the legalities of what they're allowed to say or the consequences of saying literally anything that anyone disagrees with.

Despite their efforts, it's not all about the trans ...

This case goes to the heart of general police behaviour and the ingrained attitude they have that they can do what they like "because they is plod". There have been plenty of instances where law abiding people have been approached - having committed no offence - by police who have decided to throw their weight around.

I can't see how an appeal could be beneficial to them, at all. We all know what cards are on the table now. The lot.

Particularly as the complainant might well be deemed to have sent offensive material them self.

It appeared to me that the more information that came out, the worse it looked.

So am I understanding it correctly that Harry's team were able to say to the judge "We've got hardly anything to add, your honour, you've already said it all for us?" [] Yes. Exactly that.

The cynic in me wonders if this will be leveraged at CoA to suggest the judge was not impartial. In which case be prepared for more legal sparkle, as the CoA note that having a clear case is not grounds for appeal and the claimant can hardly be blamed if the defence obfuscate their case to buggery.

The alleged transphobia side of this is very interesting, but as Fair Cop have said, this goes way beyond that.

It should be of interest for anyone interested in the Twitter joke trial, or anyone on social media who cares about the legalities of what they're allowed to say or the consequences of saying literally anything that anyone disagrees with.

Fascinating stuff, even the assertion that Tweets are work with intent to be disseminated etc which was a bit

Not sure how judicial review works, but does the judge have to give leave to appeal?

They do, and they usually refuse (IME - ex criminal justice system employee here) in which case CoP/HP would have to apply to the Court of Appeal for leave to appeal, and IIRC there has to be a "realistic prospect of success". So being able to appeal is not a given.

Ova that's pretty much what the police said to me. "You can't have been that upset about it or you would have reported it before."

I'm so relieved that the judge was only interested in the actual law. Can't say fairer than that.

Humberside Police: this is a scandal.

Yes. Exactly that

"TinselAngel

So am I understanding it correctly that Harry's team were able to say to the judge "We've got hardly anything to add, your honour, you've already said it all for us?"

Yes. Exactly that.

I was inclined to assume it was the lawyer-esque one who has, in a dictionary-worthy example of projection, referred to this case as a "vanity lawsuit."

But did they say the complainant is not on Twitter? If I've got that right it would rule out most of the usual suspects.

Ova that's pretty much what the police said to me. "You can't have been that upset about it or you would have reported it before."

I've developed a crush on the judge too.

There are a few guesses but any speculation would likely be deleted.

Assuming HM is awarded judgement, be prepared for an insta-appeal from the CoP

Not sure how judicial review works, but does the judge have to give leave to appeal?

Loads of startling stuff in that thread, by the way, but am particularly struck by the "victim" who had herself been tweeting offensive stuff. Any idea who it was? I suppose we're not allowed to know.

*Whilst that would be a given, never underestimate the spite of officials scorned. Assuming HM is awarded judgement, be prepared for an insta-appeal from the CoP (they've probably already completed the forms). And should that fail, be prepared for moves to take it to SCOTUK. And if that takes months, maybe a year or more, of worry, stress and uncertainly for Harry, so much the better.

It's nothing personal. Nobody is allowed to tweak the nose of power and get away with it.*

Now that you put it like that it seems obvious. Nothing for it but to keep PULLLING.

So am I understanding it correctly that Harry's team were able to say to the judge "We've got hardly anything to add, your honour, you've already said it all for us?"

Do you think one of the adult human females in the judge's life reads Mumsnet and has helped him understand things like "Terf"?

If so, and you are reading this. THANK YOU, THANK YOU

Few things have given me as much pleasure as reading that thread. To take one example:

Judge - I am afraid you will have to give me a specific reference to where it says police role is to act in community mediation ...give me the reference please
mentions Judge - 'have due regard to the need to'... yup

Counsel for P - due regard to need to foster good relations...

Judge just a second - reads - doesn't say anything there about acting as community mediation service

mentions Counsel for P - can I assist further

Judge - No. no.

I find the argument that if someone who has been visited and bullied by the police publicises what has happened to them they cannot then say they were anxious and concerned, because if they were so anxious and concerned they would have crawled into a hole and stayed silent. This is an utterly contemptible argument.

Isn't that a bit like the reporting of sexual offences. Speak up and a woman is vexatious or attention seeking. Stay quiet through trauma for years = proof it never happened because you would have said something at the time.

No problem Prodigal, it looked like they did because there was the email icon, but I couldn’t get it to work -apparently you can only share on Twitter and Facebook.

I find the argument that if someone who has been visited and bullied by the police publicises what has happened to them they cannot then say they were anxious and concerned, because if they were so anxious and concerned they would have crawled into a hole and stayed silent. This is an utterly contemptible argument.

Who said it's an argument ?

From some angles, it looks like it will form the next iteration of the CoP manual ...

Do as we say, or you'll have to drag us to the High Court

Where do the other cases Faircop have been talking about fit with this JR?

This one is only about Harry, while the Stonewall-law behaviour of the police towards others is equally concerning.

**

Lol

an utterly contemptible argument

Agreed, thatdamnwoman.

And Bernard would you kindly stop shaming my kink for intelligent men who see right through bullshit and address it very sternly?

Feeling brighter about the whole thing after today. Well done Harry & co!