Raising a theybe: "alienated babies"

I don't understand how you raise your child to be this "gender-neutral".

What do you do about toilet-training? Teaching about washing and hygiene? Underclothing? How do you explain necessary biological differences to a child when they start nursery or school?

I can't see how this works.

I have a toddler dd who we bring up in a very 70s genderfree way (we encourage her to copy us when we use tools etc) but even as a baby, I would voice female-specific messages to her about hygiene, so she knew from an early age that there were certain things you did and didn't do after toileting.

I'm sure parents of boys must do that too.

So I can't work out how you bring up a child with this level of refusal to recognise biological sex.

When I first read the reference to "demi-girl", I assumed it was satirical, something said by a young adult in reference to their experimental childhood. But no, this is an eight year old. They are doing this to an eight year old.

I do worry for these kids. At some point they're going to realise they have bogstandard male or female bodies not rainbow-special ones. It seems to me there's a good chance of them ending up feeling alienated from their own bodies or betrayed by those around them who've been portraying sex as a choice.

For their sakes I hope their teenage rebellion takes the form of the surreptitious reading of biology books.

Yes goosefoot. When I was pregnant I realised it was hard to get baby clothes that weren't pastel pink or blue, or white. I wanted to get some bright colours so I looked online for unisex stuff. This lead me down a bit of a rabbit hole and eventually I discovered "gender neutral parenting" which I thought was great at first. Until I realised it wasn't what it seemed. What I thought the concept was, was to let kids be kids basically. Let them play with the toys they wanted to play with and not to restrict them with ideas like girls shouldn't play with toy cars. But then I realised that there was a logic fail going on. And what started with: girls should be able to play with toy cars, toy cars aren't just for boys, turned into: my girl likes to play with toy cars, my girl is actually a boy. Obviously that's not an actual example but that was pretty much it. And people didn't seem to notice the jump going on. It is weird.

I found this a profoundly sad article. Moving rather than infuriating. Children's natural identity formation is being stunted and obstructed rather than made free.

Jan Macvarish is interesting generally on family structure and the Parenting Industrial Complex's endless interfering. I don't agree with everything she says by any means but she's an invigorating thinker and her book aimed at non-academics is well worth reading.

www.amazon.co.uk/Neuroparenting-Expert-Invasion-Family-Life/dp/1137547324?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I think it would be far more progressive to raise a child who knows their biological sex, and knows that it doesn’t have to define what they wear, like, play with, do as a career or who they choose to love.

Well put Third

In a all seriousness does anyone else feel worried for this 8 year old child growing up? I'm not suggesting that the 'household' isn't loving I'm more concerned that the natural instincts you grow up with will be so broken down that actually this child will be more at risk as the child will be taught not to question those instincts.

I use 'child' and 'household' as those are the words do not talk about biology and 'household' is used in the article.

Learning the difference between boys and girls, men and women is an important part of child development. I understand the wish to not push children into sexist stereotype boxes, girls do this, boys like that, but to pretend sex is irrelevant is abusive in my opinion.

This article touches on something I've noticed, which is a belief in gender essentialism often seems to be tied to efforts to completely remove gender expression from the world of young children.

Mum, am I a boy or a girl?
You're a boy.
Am I a boy because I wear trousers?
No dear, boys and girls can wear trousers or skirts. You're a boy because you have a penis. Girls have a vulva not a penis.
-----
Parent, am I a boy or a girl?
I don't know Rainbow Unicorn dear, which feels right to you?
I don't know, what's the difference?
There's no difference, just feelings.
Well, I have a penis, does that help?
No dear, boys and girls can have penises.
Sometimes I like wearing trousers and sometimes I like wearing skirts.
That's just your presentation dear, boys and girls can wear skirts and trousers. Your gender is about how you feel.
I just feel like me.
Well dear, perhaps you're not a boy or a girl. Perhaps you're one of these special rainbow people. Let me find a list and we'll see what you like the sound of ...

I read that the other day. I'm really worried for that 8 year old.

I thought the paragraph quoting the "demi girl" was satire at first.

She doesn't have a mother, she has a person who gave birth to her.

It is all very messed up, definitely not child led at all. I do worry for Sparrow once they reach the age when children define each other as boy/ girl as they will not know where to fit in.