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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gender Identity ideology - New Religious Movement in formation?

58 replies

NonnyMouse1337 · 16/11/2019 09:45

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness and come from a cultural background where belief in some sort of god and religion is a part of nearly everyone's life. It doesn't even occur to most people that belief in god or religion is optional; they simply perpetuate and parrot whatever ideology they were raised with, even very clever individuals that I know who are doctors, scientists, etc. Religion and culture overlap greatly and people seem unable or unwilling to question things or don't see the point in upsetting the status quo.

Anyway my intense love for science, logic and understanding how things worked meant it was only a matter of time before my doubts about The Truth became too numerous and I had to admit it was a load of shite. I looked at other mainstream religions and saw the same characteristics and realised they were shite too. Eventually I had to admit I was an atheist.

However, I have retained a grim fascination for understanding religious beliefs, how religions and ideologies evolve, why do people believe in things that are demonstrably untrue or have no real evidence, how belief systems attract new followers and perpetuate itself etc.
I would have liked to maybe pursue this lifelong interest as some sort of academic research, but I don't think I am cut out to be a detached researcher in this topic. It generates a very visceral response in me of hate, disgust, anger and sadness due to my experiences with the Jehovah's Witnesses and my personal journey as a religious apostate.

Nevertheless I still ponder on these topics as an amateur. I find human behaviour frustratingly illogical but predominantly predictable and I have noticed certain common threads that run through ideologies and beliefs over time.
While I am just as fallible as anyone else and not immune to succumbing to any kind of ideology, I find my background as an apostate helps me stay a bit alert, a bit sensitive to certain words or phrases, a bit wary when I get a 'whiff of bullshit', feel my skin crawl or my spidey-sense starts tingling especially when everyone around me seems to be going along with something.

I plan on buying Eileen Barker's book on New Religious Movements to learn more, but in the meantime I can't help but view the current phenomenon around Gender Identity ideology as the birth and formation of a New Religious Movement.

Religious and faith movements have come and gone for millennia. Humans seem predisposed to grasping for order and sense in a chaotic world and find different routes for this purpose. It does appear, though, that the more chaotic and unstable the world, the more likely people are to turn to magical thinking and superstitious beliefs as a way of protecting themselves or distracting themselves from the reality they live in.
People who are happy, healthy and feel a sense of purpose and connection with their communities feel less inclined to jump onto bandwagons and movements.

While global standards of living have increased overall, the past 10 years or so has seen wealth inequalities increase in Western economies. The self-destructive political ideology of austerity and neoliberalism has meant that investment in public services has declined drastically as well as economic productivity. Extracting short term gain for the wealthy at the expense of our collective long-term future is the goal. Compared to previous generations, people are earning less, in less secure jobs with paltry pensions, unable to climb the housing ladder due to extremely inflated property prices and lack of social housing and so on.

While membership of organised religions are falling, people's desire for grasping onto beliefs in a chaotic world haven't decreased. The rise of 'woo' is a testament to this. As funding for physical and mental health provision has fallen, the rise in energy healing, crystal healing, the bizarre devotion for 'eastern philosophies' and so on is becoming popular to cater to people's physical aches and pains and mental health issues. Food fads and various ways to remove 'toxic' things internally and externally keep appearing. We have the looming threat of climate change on our doorstep, so it's easier for people to block it out and focus on selfies, cosmetic surgeries, fashions in the quest to unearth and celebrate 'who you really are'. Much easier to focus on the individual and the superficial because it's actually pretty difficult to face deep seated, collective problems.

Gender Identity ideology appears to me to be a way of blocking out collective problems and focusing on pointless individualistic issues that ultimately have no bearing on ourselves and our species. Pronoun 'crimes' are more devastating and infuriating than a lack of decent and affordable housing, for example.

Gender Identity ideology is fascinating because it is similar to many other types of NRMs but also has some differences due to rise in internet technology.

NRMs tend to appeal predominantly to relatively well educated and middle class young people. They are not burdened by the responsibilities of looking after young or old family members, so have the time to invest in these activities. Women seem especially susceptible to NRMs.

These ideologies don't necessarily have to have a religious or spiritual element. They can arise from all sorts of political, social and philosophical movements. The underlying structure is the same. People looking for meaning, purpose, community and unconditional acceptance (except these forms of acceptance are rarely unconditional).

Conventional NRMs have followers congregate in physical spaces, maybe a retreat or ashram, but due to the internet, you can now have online and networked social spaces as an easy substitute. A lot of young people spend considerable time online and Gender Identity ideology is known to have crystallised and evolved in spaces like Tumblr. They are least likely to read traditional news sources and instead rely on alternative media for their news and facts. Online algorithms tend to show you only things you are interested in and the ability to block and ban material you disagree with means you have generated a very effective bubble of groupthink without having to live in a spiritual retreat for months or years.

Gender Identity ideology is a fairly decentralised movement i.e. there is no single figurehead leading it, but there are several key players. Powerful organisations like Stonewall lobby and influence society outside of the movement by promoting materials with their doctrines. Self-styled gurus are popular amongst the adherents on YouTube and Instagram - these non-binary and trans superstars showing believers how amazing their lives are and your life could be awesome like theirs too.

This is a movement in its infancy so we are currently seeing the expansion / proselytising phase. They need sufficient first generation converts if they are to carry on as a movement. All NRMs have this aggressive proselytising phase as far as I'm aware. This is because although they quickly gain followers and admirers, NRMs by their nature have very high turnovers. Very few followers become hardcore, long-term believers. Most followers remain loosely associated on the fringes and many lose interest after a few years. The novelty of the doctrines wear off and they find other movements that catch their attention or find the pressures of life don't leave them with time for such indulgences, or they feel disillusionment with the community and acceptance they were promised.

It will be interesting to see if this NRM manages to evolve into the more longer-term and stable phase. The subsequent generations born into this ideology due to their parents being adherents, will be more likely to question and rebel.
What happens when a teenager raised to have unquestioning faith in gender identity challenges their parents upon learning about the immutability of biological sex or the lack of evidence of a gendered soul. Will they be kicked out of home for disagreeing and rebelling? I think so.

Interested to hear what others think about this.

OP posts:
LangCleg · 16/11/2019 13:27

Watch out - I got a strike for linking a certain popular ideology to a type of fanatical belief system...

The first ever strike I got after the rules came in was for criticising genderist material going into schools and dismantling safeguarding procedures. I'd called the guidance an abuser's charter or somesuch. And, despite being explicit that those put at risk by this were the gender questioning children themselves and that the infiltrating abuser taking advantage of the dismantled safeguards would likely not be trans - I got reported for "negative generalisations about trans people" and the mods agreed. It took two weeks of arguing the toss before I got the strike removed.

It just shows how religious thinking puts blinkers on people so much that they genuinely can't see the wood for the trees.

Melroses · 16/11/2019 13:17

Having a closed religion where believers are kept in line with rules and hierarchy is one way of maintaining belief in something that is ideological.

Another way is to reaffirm that belief with revival meetings, where everyone can get together and have an enjoyable time whilst professing their faith.

The other is recruitment - you need see what you believe is reflected back to you from other people and that some want to join. This is also one of the reasons people cannot speak up when something seems wrong; if they are not getting that reflect back to them, they begin to doubt their judgement.

OldCrone · 16/11/2019 13:11

things like postmodern thinking and queer theory etc were very much a product of intellectuals

Postmodernism (as I understand it) is about no one idea being superior to another and that everything is subjective. Queer theory is about disrupting conventional thought processes. Yet when you apply the postmodernist "my reality is as valid as yours" to the queer theorists' "conventional" thoughts (such as "transwomen are women"), you are shouted down as a heretic.

Inebriati · 16/11/2019 13:10

Imo it might actually be hard wired into each of us to organize in a particular way; horizontal/community, or hierarchical, according to which type of order we feel most comfortable.

People who are hierarchical like a clear pecking order. They may feel they belong higher up or lower down the ladder, but they must have a ladder.

People who are community thinkers have respect for those who demonstrate skill or learning, and who take responsibility. Their ladder is horizontal; each person manages their own area and co-operates with their neighbour. They feel disgusted by attempts to take control.

Religion and conservatism appeal to hierarchical thinkers, socialism appeals more to community thinkers.

Redyellowpink · 16/11/2019 13:08

This is fascinating. @hoodathunkit and OP, you sound very well read on this, can you recommend any other academic texts on it? (I'm familiar with Eileen Barker but not with the controversy) Thanks

NonnyMouse1337 · 16/11/2019 12:40

Birdsfoottrefoil good point. Shock It's difficult for me not to be a troublemaker. I ask too many questions.

OP posts:
Melroses · 16/11/2019 12:39

Equally the Roman Catholic church never fully succeeded in stamping out Paganism. Throughout history this has never worked

The Romans used to put together the local gods with their own gods eg Sulis and Minerva as they took over. Christianity took in pagan rituals around spring and easter and harvest.

Trans ideology uses many parallels with established norms, eg reforming the GRA is like gay marriage, and all the Jelly babies/genderbread/unicorn stuff.

NonnyMouse1337 · 16/11/2019 12:37

Thanks andyoldlabour.

Pencils that article looks awesome ... And long! I'm definitely going read it all, even if I have to do it in sections.

I'm never quite sure what to write about my experiences. If there's a specific context, I can elaborate otherwise I don't really know where to start. For a long time I tried to leave it all behind and forget about it and move on, but the past year or so I've been really struggling with deja vu because of the trans stuff and there's nowhere to really avoid it. The whole 'can't really say what I think because someone will report me' is very reminiscent of how JWs operate. You have to really watch what you say or other members will report you to the elders and you might be hauled before a 'judicial committee' - yes it really is called that. :(

OP posts:
Birdsfoottrefoil · 16/11/2019 12:29

Watch out - I got a strike for linking a certain popular ideology to a type of fanatical belief system...

Michelleoftheresistance · 16/11/2019 12:15

On the plus side, we can re utilise all those old priest holes for when Stonewall bang on the door shouting 'are you housing a GC woman!'

Michelleoftheresistance · 16/11/2019 12:13

If everyone was told there was a new religion and it MUST be followed or else, and that every other belief was now invalid...

It's happened before. Henry VIII and the dissolution of the monasteries, there are a lot of parallels. Not least a strong political agenda and a bunch of useful extremists leaping aboard a passing bandwagon. It included people being forced to sign declarations of Right Think. Then as now, it happens slowly, in a political context, and now as then the penalties for openly speaking out are heavy. People are afraid. There were resurgences of this all through Mary's reign and later Cromwell and his Puritans.

To look at the history of Protestant/Catholicism battling in the UK over the centuries, there have been some truly terrible times of people being tortured and executed for being caught in possession of the wrong book or attending a meeting. In all this time, sometimes one faith rose above the other, but it was never possible to stamp out one belief system to impose another, even with the full weight of government and capital punishment behind it. Only to reach a point of coexistence and mutual acceptance that transubstantiation is an actual thing for some and not for others. Equally the Roman Catholic church never fully succeeded in stamping out Paganism. Throughout history this has never worked .

Baffling that the sparkly rainbow glitter spin been given to 'inclusion' and 'intersectionality' by the TRA political lobby has more in common with Cromwell's Puritans than it does with any modern belief.

NonnyMouse1337 · 16/11/2019 12:07

hoodathunkit thanks a lot for those links! I shall have a listen later on today. I had only recent come across Eileen Barker and her work.... Like a few days ago. :D

There's not a lot of useful research into cults and religious movements. As Arnold mentioned it's less about religion and more about faith, so cults can arise in social and political movements that have little to do with spirituality.
I liked that Eileen Barker was trying to frame very diverse groups into New Religious Movements, to avoid the default negative connotations associated with the term 'cult' and trying to explain the phenomenon and understand how they evolve in response to internal and external forces.

Don't know anything about the Inform group. Will look into into it some more. :)

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HandsOffMyRights · 16/11/2019 12:01

Thanks to all the posters with links to books/research on religion, cults/ideology.

There are many parallels.

I am angry that my child's school teaches gender ideology as fact thanks to Stonewall. I said to the HT would he teach children that it's possible to walk on water or come back from the dead as fact in RPE?

PencilsInSpace · 16/11/2019 11:56

Brilliant post OP, yes the parallels are clear in many ways.

You write very well and your background provides additional insight that's not necessarily available to those of us who did not have a strongly religious upbringing.

If you don't feel detached enough to do research it would be great if you could find another way to write further and develop your ideas (as well as on here, I mean Smile)

Have you read this? I have to admit I have not read all of it because it's very long!

areomagazine.com/2018/12/18/postmodern-religion-and-the-faith-of-social-justice/

andyoldlabour · 16/11/2019 11:43

Nonny, thanks for such a brilliant thread.

andyoldlabour · 16/11/2019 11:43

"If you disrespect a priest one of the nuns will smack you round the back of the head."

Crikey, that takes me back a few decades. I remember getting a clip around the ear from my mum, when I was seven or eight, because I came back from school and asked her why the priest had so many wives Smile

NonnyMouse1337 · 16/11/2019 11:38

JoyceJeffries and Melroses absolutely no intention on my part to have the conversation as something simply for 'intellectuals'. :)

I think sometimes a lot of academia and intellectual thinking can be very counterproductive in these sort of topics. It's not a wholesale criticism of the very intelligent people in academia and the useful research that they do, but things like postmodern thinking and queer theory etc were very much a product of intellectuals and it does not translate well into the real world where ordinary people face the consequences of trying to implement such absurdities.

As LangCleg pointed out, you've both made really insightful points ... I like the framing of transwomen as priests and transmen as nuns! Females always occupying the lower rungs of any institution.

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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 16/11/2019 11:36

If you disrespect a priest one of the nuns will smack you round the back of the head. As will the more enthusiastic members of the congregation (non-trans TRAs). In fact those are often the people who smack hardest.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 16/11/2019 11:35

If everyone was told that there was a new religion and that it MUST be followed or else and that every other belief was now invalid. Then we will be force feeding it to your children so they will grow up not questioning it, and that any disagreement would be punished.
There would be bloody uproar.

Yet this is exactly what IS happening and people are blindly going along with it.

LangCleg · 16/11/2019 11:34

And just like nuns their job is to control the other female adherents (male adherents don't have to listen to them unless they're children, and sometimes not even then).

Precisely.

MrGsFancyNewVagina · 16/11/2019 11:32

I was actually shocked when I read this!

Transwomen are the priests
Transmen are nuns (below transwomen)

That is such an appropriate way of putting it. 👏🏼

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 16/11/2019 11:32

The desperate need to control language is a classic religion manoeuvre

It is one used by ideological movements whether they are rooted in religion or politics.

I have long thought it isn't religion that's the problem but faith. People who have faith won't listen to reason whether that faith is in Christianity, communism or transgenderism.

XXCoffeeHoneyBread · 16/11/2019 11:24

Genderism is absolutely a (cultish) belief system as logical to me as flat eartherism or scientology.

JoyceJeffries · 16/11/2019 11:24

The desperate need to control language is a classic religion manoeuvre. Up until quite recently blasphemy was illegal in the UK but now we are moving towards compelled speech.

It really is quite astonishing.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 16/11/2019 11:22

Transmen are nuns (below transwomen)

And just like nuns their job is to control the other female adherents (male adherents don't have to listen to them unless they're children, and sometimes not even then).

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